# You Need to Fit in a Box (Even If You Hate It)

Source: https://whatismaven.com/useful-boxes/
Published: 2025-05-19
Updated: 2025-06-08
Author: Jeff Sarris

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Almost everyone’s making this mistake with brand messaging. They’re either trying to be everything or end up showing up as nothing at all.

Today we’re talking about boxes—why we hate them, why we need to fit in them to some degree, and how to do it without losing yourself.

## Why We Need to Fit in a Box

So tell me a little bit about why this topic—why do we need to fit in a box?

This came from conversations this week at a retreat that we were filming. We were talking about brand, and it is sort of unpleasant to have to fit in a box.

It was “how do I actually create this brand message when I don’t want to be in a box?” Which is completely understandable. We are so much more than any one thing.

[Embedded content](https://www.youtube.com/embed/rPrTc36EX5c?feature=oembed)

Let’s just go real quick. For me, people know me for various things. They know me now for [MAVEN](https://whatismaven.com)—organic content marketing for realtors. Spire—that’s brand and design and marketing. You’re introduced as “Spire Jeff” on the minimalist podcast for minimalism because of The Minimalists and our documentary “Minimalism.”

As the host of the [Kidney Stone Diet podcast](https://kidneystonediet.com/podcast/). In the past it was Paleo Porn. There’s other things—we can go on and on.

But then what about you?

Most importantly, my love. But what are just a quick little few bullet points of boxes you would fit in?

Oh man, I mean anything and everything, which I think most people can relate to. Which is why it’s such a difficult topic for everybody. Because none of us just want to be one thing. We want to be all the things.

For me right now, obviously MAVEN. People literally think MAVEN is my name, which is pretty cool. I mean, Amara or MAVEN—I’ll take either name.

Right now it’s MAVEN. People before have known me for art history in various different facets—whether on my [TikTok](https://tiktok.com/@amaraandrew) or as their teacher.

You taught at Columbia College Chicago for art history, yes. Because of TikTok, which is a whole other story we talk about on other episodes.

And then as an archivist at UIC—University of Illinois Chicago—and Art Institute, a couple other different places. But just all these different things. Or even a freaking barista at some point.

People in our town knew me as the girl at the coffee shop. I would see people out and they’d be like “Oh hey,” and I’d be like “Hey, honey almond latte or whatever.” Because I always just call people by their drink orders because I found it funny.

Because that’s how you know people.

### The Problem with Being Everything

We don’t want to be in any single box, but that can be debilitating. Because it’s like “okay, I’m everything. Let me just tell everyone I’m everything.” It’s like “oh no, I need to be in a box. Well, I don’t even know where to start. How do I get myself into a box to tell people? Because I’m so much more than a single box.”

But the big thing we want to talk about is you need some sort of box to fit in so people have a way to understand what you do and to spread the word about what you do.

But that box doesn’t have to be everything. That box is just a taste to get them in the door, which is really important.

### The Portable Story Concept

One thing that you can think about is the concept of a portable story. So a portable story would be something I can embody and tell and show through who I am and what I do that then others can take and transfer on to other people.

So they spread the word for us. It’s organic marketing. It’s a viral form of marketing—not viral like content like we think, but viral content marketing. And that it is a virus that spreads throughout the community.

Give an example of how we’ve done that.

Specifically with who we are with MAVEN—our little box, the little taste of who we are, is that we do video for realtors made simple. And that is just to get people sort of in the door.

It’s like “oh, they’re videographers.” It’s like “oh, they do listings.” Oh, they don’t do listings—we don’t have to lead with that because they assume we do listings. And then we started to go a little further and a little further and a little further.

But then with time, people learn that we also do brand and product and strategy and everything else that goes into being a successful entrepreneur. All the things like what I’ve done with Spire—my brand agency is help people build six and seven-figure personal brands.

What we’re doing is we’re helping people build their personal brand in real estate. But we can’t say all of that. That can’t be our message. Who’s going to be able to spread that? I don’t think that goes over well at a cocktail party where everyone’s trashed.

### Creating Your Portable Story

So we need to give that portable story so people are able to say “Oh, this is MAVEN. They make awesome videos for realtors.” That’s what a lot of people tend to say. “And we make them feel comfortable first and foremost as well,” which is another portable story—it’s how they feel.

So that’s the thing—it’s the story of just who we are as a tiny little box: “video for realtors.” And then they’re just like “Oh, but you’re going to love them. You’re going to have a good time with them. It’s going to be fun.”

And we sort of inject that in our messaging on the website too, right up top. Basically the second or third thing that’s said is “you’ll also have a lot of fun.” And it’s like that just shows we’re not just all buttoned up and serious.

So having that categorization is really helpful. Because otherwise then it’s like “who are these two long-haired people? They’re not in real estate, so what are they doing at this conference?” And we’re not just videographers—it’s so much more.

### Taking Control of Your Narrative

Lately we’ve been—I mean even with this podcast—we’ve been trying to tell people more and more what we do and who we are. Because otherwise people are giving us labels, which is fine—it’s worked out—but you kind of need to be in control of the narrative to an extent.

Not a control freak, but enough to be like “okay, this is where people are going.” “Videographers”—that’s such a tiny, tiny label for everything that we do. So it’s like “okay, how do we pivot and change that story so it fits more the category of what we are?” Which is a category of one.

And the category based on who the story—who this portable story, who this message—is for. So in the real estate space, we work specifically in this “video for realtors made simple” lane.

But if you don’t create this story, this narrative—if you don’t fit in some sort of neat little box that someone else can share for you—they will put you in one unwittingly.

That was a conversation that we had with someone. He was actually really disappointed that someone from a stage with a lot of influence referred to him as “their athletic friend.” And he’s like “but that’s not—I may be athletic, but that’s not the story that he’s trying to spread.”

And it’s like “oh, that actually hurts because this is creating a new portable story that doesn’t align with my goals and outcomes.” And he’s in a competitive market with a lot of other well-known, sort of quote-unquote “celebrity realtors.” So I can see how that would be taken as diminutive.

Because it’s like “no, no, no—I’m so much more than that,” which he is. I think the person who said it meant it in a nice way, but it’s hard because it’s like “but I’m a million other things.”

So we need to choose what that tiny box is where we begin.

## What We’ve Been Up To

So what were we doing this week that this topic came up, and what are we up to?

This is the second year we filmed a retreat, and I loved it. It’s just enough woo-woo for me where it’s like “ooh, we get to dive in,” and it’s very wellness-focused but also still with a business curve and everything.

So we were at this retreat with a nice intimate group of people. It’s kept intimate on purpose so then you can actually have connections and things.

We’ve talked about—not to be super open and vulnerable—but we’re kind of missing that here at home: the connection with people. And especially driven people who are like “no, I want to do this, this, and this.”

It’s hard because we go to a lot of different conferences, and the amount of connection you can make with people is very, very limited. Because we’re all trying to talk to everybody. We’re all trying to talk to all the people that we don’t get to see that often.

### The Power of Intimate Settings

That’s the benefit that we get though when we get to go to our [Top Bananas](https://whatismaven.com/pricing/)—we get to connect with them, see them in their place, like their place of living and everything, in such a unique way, which is really cool.

So we get to connect to an extent. But then the people that we don’t work with, we don’t really get to connect with as much. So that’s why this retreat is really cool—because we actually got to have one-on-one time with people that we’ve seen but haven’t really gotten to spend time together, or new friends.

I just wanted to say—the intimate setting is our thing. That’s our lane. That’s how we connect with people most. And that’s why we really like this retreat specifically.

Because from last year, we have this little core group of people who are still just sort of forever bonded. From this year, a new core group.

What’s really funny—unrelated—we just have a new group chat as of yesterday. Another intimate setting. We had a dinner that was the best dinner we’ve ever had in our life. This was literally just unrelated to the retreat—this was months ago, in October maybe.

It was the funniest, silliest—just it was a riot of a time. And just yesterday, someone from that dinner created a chat group on [Instagram](https://instagram.com/amara_andrew) of just the people who were there. Just because even though it’s months later, he just was like “I want to share this to everyone from that dinner.”

And it was just chaos at the dinner, and now in the group chat. I love it.

But there’s a magic to the intimate settings. It’s almost easier to—it’s so hard to throw any event—but it’s almost easier to be like “here, let’s just have a hundred, a thousand people.” Because it’s sort of—it’s not really as bespoke for the individuals. It’s just like, as a whole, this event will provide this.

But when you can get those little intimate settings just right, there is something really special there. And you’re bonded—like going away to camp.

### Curation Matters

And that’s the key word too—”just right”—because it has to be highly curated as much as you can control. Like the dinner, it was a very curated group of people, and it worked perfectly because we’re all kind of nuts. So it was perfect.

And there’s overlap—everyone wasn’t the same archetype of human, but all have a sense of humor. And that’s super, super key for that dinner specifically.

But yeah, anyway, it was a good time and just enough of sort of a reset in a way. And we’re lucky because we also get to sort of partake in it as well. So I was like “I’ve never done a sound bath or whatever,” and I don’t know—I felt rejuvenated.

It’s a different experience. Again, we’re very privileged being that we do video for and with people, but they all also welcome us into their lives in a very unique way. And that isn’t lost on us.

I think we’ve talked about it—we’ve talked about it a ton—but I think on the show we’ve talked about it before too, where people welcome us into their families. And we have dinners and meet their children and different things that you just typically don’t get.

So none of it’s lost on us. It’s all—we appreciate all of it.

### New Content and Direction

And I’ve just been working on some new content ideas for me, which I’m excited about. So it’s going to be really stupid, but that’s what makes me excited.

And we’re pivoting slightly. We’re shifting. So our compass is still aligned to where we’re going, but we’re shifting just a little bit to do a little more for us again.

We’re sort of clearing out some of the old and making way for the new, which is good.

And the old being—even so I have my partners and clients at Spire, and there’s projects that have been in the works for a very long time. And I’m trying to wrap as many of those as I can so then I can make room for all of these things that we’re so excited to be building to further help people create content.

We’re sort of codifying some of these different lanes of tactics that can be used holistically into a strategy to really help realtors do something special. So we’re excited about all that.

Because we have our specific strategies that we use with our Top Bananas—who are our MAVEN clients—but being more holistic of an approach and looking at these other things that work for different personality types and different types of people.

Because what we do will work, but it may not work for people on a level of what they want to do. And that’s completely fine. Because why do you have different genres of music? Again, categorization and boxes. But why do you have different types of music? Because not everybody wants to listen to Bach or Beethoven or Social Distortion, you know—the three main composers from the Baroque period.

But we have the strategy that works, with time compounds. But then also now we’re pulling other tactics from others who are doing very specific things strategically and very well. And now we’re improving—we’re expanding our holistic strategy to be able to sort of move pieces in and out in a way that we couldn’t before.

Because we’re always going to do evergreen content. Evergreen content is going to be the most important content that you make, by far. I don’t care—I will die on that hill.

But then incorporating—which is true because literally we’ve done this now for years, but also this is all I’ve done since 2009—it’s exactly what we’re doing with MAVEN, except more in the written word than the video word.

Just a little bit more timely tactics. So not changing the strategy, but just specific little things.

We have tactics that aren’t simple to do currently, so we want to simplify all that for everyone.

## How to Create Your Brand Box

Brand is what people think and say about you when you’re not around. So how do we decide what we want people to think and say about us when we’re not around?

Like we discussed, having autonomy in what people think and say about you is basically key. So it really all comes down to a feeling.

### The Spaceship Test

Just as an example—imagine our little spaceship if you can see it. If not, if you’re listening, there’s a spaceship in the middle of the table. Imagine a little spaceship comes down out of the sky. What do you feel?

Do you feel happy? Do you feel excited? No, you feel kind of terrified and anxious because you don’t know what that is. First off, you don’t know what’s in it. Especially if a little being comes out.

It’s a really weird example, but essentially you feel anxious because it’s something unknown. And that’s what humans don’t like. That’s why death is like a really big fear for most people—because it’s the unknown.

So anyway, let’s go to happier topics.

### How to Become Known

How can you become known to people? How can somebody already meet you, and they’ve seen you on social media—especially nowadays, most people see each other on social media before they meet in person, specifically in real estate—how can they feel like they already know you?

Something that I would recommend doing is writing down three things that you absolutely love. It can be whatever—three things that you absolutely love or you love to talk about.

So for example, for me: history, art, ideas, things like that—just ideation I find interesting. It could be yoga—where you absolutely love yoga, you’ve taken years of yoga, you were even a yoga instructor. Whatever it is.

And then talk about your journey through yoga. You could talk about poses—whatever it is. Just pick those three things and make content about those and share that.

Because then somebody will have a better idea of you, and you’re in control because you automatically chose those things that somebody should know about you.

### Connecting Your Interests to Your Business

You’re giving people a thing to think and say about you when you’re not around. And ideally, then you want to connect that to what you’re doing.

So if it’s real estate, you want people to think “oh, he or she is a yogi that does real estate.” Like that’s fun and easy. Kevin is a chef realtor—he is a professional chef who turned realtor. And that’s a way people can connect.

Like when he met Chris—Chris is not in real estate, but Chris was a chef—and they were best buddies immediately. Because people like us do things like this. So we get an identity and a relationship with people who we relate to.

And especially too, when people find out that you are involved with The Minimalists in minimalism, that’s another thing where it’s just like “oh, oh my god.” And it fills in the gaps for them where you’re just sort of this enigma—you’re a blank slate, they have absolutely nothing filled in for you.

It’s kind of like a puzzle—you have none of the pieces, you don’t even have the edges filled in. But when you can give people a little bit, then that can make a bond immediately.

So then people have a better way to sort of contextualize you. Again, they’re going to fill in some pieces that you maybe don’t want filled in, or they’re just going to fill in things regardless of what you say. But at least you have that framework in place where they can sort of go from that, because that’s hugely helpful.

### The Box Is Just the Beginning

So that’s box—you’re putting yourself in some sort of box for people to understand. But then that’s not the only box you’re in.

Like the yogi example—you can be in that little box, but then you realize “oh, this person also is all of these other things.” But you don’t have to show everything up front, because that’s overwhelming.

And that’s the invitation to be able to talk about more. So maybe you’ll find out “oh, you love this random brand of cacao or whatever”—whatever it is. Or like someone we met at a conference—I saw we had the same exact phone case. It’s a very random phone case—I’ve never seen anybody else with that exact brand and everything. That was an immediate connector.

And then we found out we have a lot more in common as well—we’re basically twins, which is very weird. But that’s another sort of jumping-off point where then it’s like “oh, okay, now I kind of want to discover a little bit more about this person.”

And maybe that’s the only thing that they’re going to have in common with you, and that’s fine. But you can talk about it.

### Your Box Can Change

The boxes are just to give people an idea if they want to learn more.

The exercise that I said earlier has to be introspective. Because I can’t help you with your boxes—you need to figure out what those boxes are. And you don’t know until you start something.

And your boxes can change what you want to have people know you as. That’s the beauty of it—it’s not permanent. And I think so many people get caught up on “this is permanent, this is forever.” And so many people then struggle with that—it’s analysis paralysis.

You literally just have to pick three things. Maybe you like to eat ham, you like to play trombone, and you like UFOs. Then you’re a weirdo—but ham, trombone, UFO-er. That’s it.

It doesn’t have to be permanent—it can change.

There’s tens of thousands of people who know you as the person who taught them how to create stuff for Etsy. Because you did a lot of videos around that. That’s not part of your—that’s not a box that you live in at all anymore. And that wasn’t even that long ago.

And people still, every single day—or at least every single month right now—still see your Etsy content and think of you in that one way. I’ll get DMs, I’ll get random people following me or asking me questions like “oh, how did you transition from not using a Cricut to a Cricut?” And I’m like “I haven’t thought about that in 700 years.”

That, for sure. Or about National Piñata Day and things, or mocktails, or whatever. There’s so many different things that we’ve done. But people now know us just as MAVEN, and that’s perfect because we chose that. We chose that box.

### Don’t Be Afraid to Be Messy

I think that’s what a lot of people get hung up on—making the perfect grid and not having it—it’s going to be messy. You’re going to make weird things.

When you say that, you mean Instagram?

Instagram or TikTok. Just don’t be afraid to be messy with it.

My TikTok—I was posting all the time, I kept going, and then I just stopped. That was the biggest mistake. I will never do that again, even though I did it a couple months ago again. But this time for real.

But it’s just such a weird mixture of things because it’s not only art history, but now I’m talking more about video stuff. So now I have realtors following me there too, which is really weird. So it’s like this interesting hybrid.

But I’m picking the two or three things that I want to talk about, and that’s all you’re going to find on my channel. So unfortunately, no more Etsy stuff, but I found my new lane. Still all related—art and things like that.

It’s all still you. You can change. We all change. That was you in a snapshot of time. Some people will see you—there’s snapshots in time. Nothing is set in stone.

### The Power of Old Boxes

And also, just to wrap up—someone—this was a portable story and this is a box that you were put in, but in a good way. Somebody at a conference we were literally just at last month knew you from something you did 10 years ago—it was Paleo Porn.

As soon as she found out that that was you, that was an instant connection. And that was something that, again, it hasn’t really existed for a very long time. But that was a thing where immediately it was like “oh, okay, I have a better frame of reference for you now. We can talk about this. We can talk about all different types of wellness, all those different things.”

So anyway, that literally just happened, which was really funny.

There you go—there’s your box. Enjoy your boxes.