# Don’t listen to this if you wanna be like everyone else Source: https://whatismaven.com/useful-same/ Published: 2026-02-02 Author: Jeff Sarris --- [Embedded content](https://www.youtube.com/embed/-Y880uc2JTY?feature=oembed) You get no competitive edge from consuming the same things as everyone else. Join us as we dive into the importance of storytelling, why unique hobbies matter, the nuances of live streaming, and unconventional sales strategies. Small shifts that lead to big changes. 00:00 Introduction and Show Overview\ 00:35 The Importance of Unique Consumption\ 01:33 Exploring New Interests and Hobbies\ 02:18 The Concept of Derive and Mental Breaks\ 03:37 The Value of Hobbies and Relaxation\ 07:42 Social Media and Content Consumption\ 14:21 Live Streaming and Personal Content Creation\ 19:59 Nostalgic TV Shows and Music Distractions\ 20:53 The Art of Storytelling in Screenwriting\ 22:02 The Importance of Character Transformation\ 23:19 Challenges of Teaching and Performing\ 24:47 The Struggle of Self-Promotion\ 25:40 Unique Sales Techniques\ 27:30 The Aggressive Sales Experience\ 30:11 MAVEN’s Approach to Marketing\ 33:00 Creative Ideas for Conferences **Jeff Sarris:** You get no competitive edge from consuming the same things as everyone else. **Amara Andrew:** Welcome back to Useful Not Famous. This is the show where we discuss, I almost just said the intro for my other podcast, uh, where we talk about things we find interesting and share ’em with you. I’m Amara. **Jeff Sarris:** I’m Jeff Sarris. You never say your last name. **Amara Andrew:** Do I need a last **Jeff Sarris:** name? Um, you need a last name? **Amara Andrew:** Uh, I’m like a pet. I don’t have a first name. **Jeff Sarris:** You don’t have a first name? Oh, no. **Amara Andrew:** I have had no water today. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah, you should move your water into frame and drink it. There you go. Now you got your water. **Amara Andrew:** Go, go, go. **Jeff Sarris:** But yeah, this is useful, not famous where, uh, our goal is to be the, the most useful people, you know. But this quote’s from. Paraphrased from Derek Sivers, and you get no competitive advantage from consuming the same things as everyone else. That’s why you’re here with this show, because this ISN is only for a few of us. It’s for us and you. Yeah. I’m pointing at the camera. If you’re listening, it’s easy. **Amara Andrew:** And I’m pointing at the camera if you’re listening also. **Jeff Sarris:** And if you’re not listening, I’m not pointing at the camera. I’m **Amara Andrew:** pointing at your soul, **Jeff Sarris:** but anyway, okay. No competitive edge. What does that mean? **Amara Andrew:** It’s like, I don’t know. You’re the one that found it. Um, well, yeah, like it’s, it’s **Jeff Sarris:** how does it apply to us? I guess that’s what it is, because again, just like we talked about last week, for anyone who is a regular. It’s about storytelling for us. We love you, and teaching through story is something we’re pivoting towards **Amara Andrew:** and something that we’ve been doing a lot more recently. Like we, we typically read things. Within our realm, so to speak, like as a people, as as a society. But something that you and I have been doing a lot more recently is trying to branch out a lot more. So actually right now in my, uh, app for my books, I have. Astrophysics for people in a hurry Waiting. Yes. The physics. I know. I’m like, am I okay? Am I having a, we **Jeff Sarris:** had a full day **Amara Andrew:** already. I’m having a tough time, but I have, uh, which is why I didn’t eat the fries at lunch because I was like, those are gonna make me sleepy. And I only ate the burger part, the patty and I still feel sleepy. **Jeff Sarris:** We had a meeting today, **Amara Andrew:** so yes, it was a very good meeting. Uh, but. Yes. So I have astrophysics for people in a hurry in my reading app, waiting for me to collect it like a, like a little puppy because it’s so something that people have done historically, like Albert Einstein, Steve Jobs, uh, they, it’s something in, it’s like it’s known as a reive, so you just sort of, you wander. You just see where you go. You go on like a walk and you’re out in nature. Typically, you can also do this in a city, which is what a RI is. Uh, that was in a book called Nadja by Andre Briton. Such a weird book. Such a weird book. I don’t recommend it. Actually a very weird book, but basically it was this whole idea of just going. On a walk and clearing your mind. Because what’ll happen is when your mind isn’t constantly trying to think of these things, it will make new connections. So that’s why like having a hobby, like doing arts or crafts or origami or like a lot of our friends do puzzles, doing that is a great way to sort of. Almost turn your brain off in a way, but it’s still going. It’s just, it’s not actively like, well, this and this and this, and forcing connections. It’s naturally letting the connections. Happen. **Jeff Sarris:** Well, and that’s the hobby of taking a shower works too. **Amara Andrew:** I thought you’re gonna say taking a shit. I was like, you know, my favorite, **Jeff Sarris:** mine was, mine was funny. You need to, you, you steamrolled right past it. Steamroll taking a shower also does the same thing. **Amara Andrew:** This **Jeff Sarris:** is an, was trying to add it to your, uh, your list of hobbies. Shower in, sorry. **Amara Andrew:** I mean, say it. Wait, stop. **Jeff Sarris:** So list your hobbies. Say **Amara Andrew:** again? Uh oh. Shitting, uh, **Jeff Sarris:** no. List the hobbies or take two. **Amara Andrew:** Uh, I don’t really have hobbies. I mean, lately what I’ve gotten into, sorry. Okay, hold on. I forgot the point. Hold on. Hold on. I got it. I got don’t you hang in there. Don’t give up on me. We’re gonna get through this. Okay. All right. Take it from the top. Pull it together. Ask me again. **Jeff Sarris:** So a derive where you’re wandering, what type of hobbies? Are good for that? **Amara Andrew:** Ooh. I mean, lately I’ve really liked origami. What are some of your hobbies? Give me a list. Oh, fuck. Uh, I mean, origami, I’ve always loved illustration. Uh, sometimes I paint, uh, I do, I. Decorate skate decks. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah, like showering **Amara Andrew:** the sky. It pays you a big bucks. **Jeff Sarris:** So it does work because you tune out, you have your negative ions. Negative ions being a positive thing. So like when you By the ocean. When you by wind or trees or all these things, those are negative ions that you get. So showering is a. Potentially beneficial hobby to have. **Amara Andrew:** It actually is. I actually, I really like that though, viewing showering as a hobby because, **Jeff Sarris:** oh God, **Amara Andrew:** hear me out. The busier we’ve gotten. Okay. I, I enjoy, don’t look at me like Mark Marin. I enjoy. That was a **Jeff Sarris:** very **Amara Andrew:** niche **Jeff Sarris:** reference. That is, that isn’t even looking at, that is looking at, at Mark Marin, like one of our friends did across a produce counter. So this is completely off the rail. So anyway, yeah. This isn’t even **Amara Andrew:** related to Mark Marin. It just so happened to be to Mark Marin. He was the one that, he was the recipient. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. **Amara Andrew:** Anyway, uh, I like the idea of making showering a hobby and here’s why. I always love showering. One of my favorite things because you go from filthy, disgusting to perfection, perfection. But as we’ve gotten busier and time has gotten. I have less of it. The idea of showering then having to oil up than so saying it, I was like, that doesn’t sound right. This is the X-rated. No. ’cause we use a oil for our skin. Uh, having to moisturize and then having to do all the other things like make sure your hair is perfect. Do all your face shit, like doing all the things. It takes so much time. Who has time for all that? Like just, but if you turn it into a hobby, then it’s like, oh, well this is what I’m doing for this time right **Jeff Sarris:** now. It’s perfect. Yeah. You know, I do my hobby, I dunno, once, twice a month maybe. No, **Amara Andrew:** for the record, he does not. **Jeff Sarris:** But No, but just funny because to think of it as a hobby does make it a little, uh, it, it changes the, um, **Amara Andrew:** importance. Like I know it’s a necessity, but. You don’t do your hobbies once or twice a month? Well, you can. **Jeff Sarris:** Well, it **Amara Andrew:** depends. **Jeff Sarris:** Depends what your hobbies are. **Amara Andrew:** Typically, you should be doing your hobby like weekly at least. I dunno. Anyway, moving on. I like thinking of it though, for me as a hobby, like something to enjoy, which I do enjoy it. It’s just like, all right, how much time do I have? And I’m like, oh no, I’m wearing my watch in the shower. Okay, actually, no, it’s waterproof **Jeff Sarris:** so clearly. Consuming things that everyone else is not consuming. This is an example of that because nobody is talking about this. We are ground. This is a groundbreaking show that all, if you decide that this is your only **Amara Andrew:** episode, **Jeff Sarris:** I don’t blame you. If this was, if this was the first episode, oh no. Last week, the week before, those were like painters. This one is a little different. However, consuming what everyone is consuming **Amara Andrew:** yes, **Jeff Sarris:** isn’t going to give you an edge on anything, and that’s what we see because. All of us collectively, not us. ’cause we’re like perfect in the best, but all of us collect no. But collectively, we all are on the same social media platforms, seeing the same things as our friends. Like you and I use different social media platforms. We don’t really consume social media except you use TikTok for entertainment. I use YouTube shorts for entertainment, like before bed. Like we both scroll on them separately, but we see the same videos. It is stupid. Yeah. We’re **Amara Andrew:** just like, oh, did **Jeff Sarris:** you see **Amara Andrew:** this? And it’s like, yeah, I saw it like four days ago. **Jeff Sarris:** That’s me always. But I always saw it. So no, **Amara Andrew:** that’s me. I am at the source. I am at TikTok. **Jeff Sarris:** Hey. A lot of, A lot of **Amara Andrew:** also Sheen Gil is right. Holding the mic like this is so comfortable. **Jeff Sarris:** I think you have to do it like this though. **Amara Andrew:** No, **Jeff Sarris:** he, so I always, I do that a lot and now after I heard people talk about it that, yeah, they’re just doing the Shane and like he does this a lot. I’m just like, hmm, I never thought about how I hold the microphone. I’ll have to make my own holding of the microphone. I thought you were gonna go, I think this is good. **Amara Andrew:** We could do whatever we want. **Jeff Sarris:** Be with whatever might you wanna be with. Be **Amara Andrew:** with. Okay. Don’t sing my songs. I feel like this is the move for me. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah, I don’t think so. **Amara Andrew:** Why not? It feels very French, very Parisian. I’m hosting the microphone that get is a cigarette and it feels you look like you’re about to deliver a sermon. **Jeff Sarris:** Welcome. **Amara Andrew:** Sorry a man. Man. Sir, I am. Yeah. So **Jeff Sarris:** we all consume the same content always. Yes. Which is true. How do we break out of that? ’cause it’s the algorithms do it. Yes. It’s not us. We’re being served the same things because the same things work no matter where you’re consuming your content, **Amara Andrew:** but also even thinking in person, like we go to events or we were going to a lot of conferences. We’ve definitely scaled back, thankfully. And. If you have like the same people in the same room all the time, they’re doing exactly the same things. Like you can see even just like on our social medias, the people that are part of all these different groups or cohorts, it’s like, oh, well they’re doing this. Like I see they’re clearly part of this group because everybody’s doing this or everybody’s doing that. And it’s, it’s interesting. It’s not bad, but you’re in the same thought and then eventually. See, this is hard because you don’t wanna have too many inputs when you’re looking for advice for certain things to do. However, if you’re doing the same thing as everybody, that does get a little murky and a little weird, like to stand out. It’s almost like, uh, what exactly did the quote say again? **Jeff Sarris:** Well, what’s your competitive edge? You won’t have a competitive edge if you’re consuming the same thing. And then. Maybe not even translating it. Yeah, so that’s, that’s something too is are we taking everything at face value? Are we seeing YouTuber, Casey s Stat? He flew to Dubai on a $30,000 flight and first class and recorded a video about it. I need to fly to Dubai on a $30,000 flight in first class and record a video about it. No, like, that’d be stupid. Like to say that sounds ridiculous, but. In the context of smaller things, we’ll look at someone doing something and say, I’m gonna do exactly that, because that’s the only way to do it, when really we can learn from it. **Amara Andrew:** Mm-hmm. **Jeff Sarris:** And be like, well, why did this work? Why would Casey do that? Well, first it’s remarkable. Mm, very remarkable. It’s, he was also paid by the airline, but **Amara Andrew:** what he **Jeff Sarris:** was, there’s all these things that you can maybe take from it. Like what was his filming style? What was. Sort of the impetus for me wanting to watch it, how did he lead into it? Like, why does this work? **Amara Andrew:** Well, and that’s like what we do with our clients, our top bananas through our, uh, video marketing agency. What is maven.com? We have a, a, a template of sorts of types of content that we’ll do with people, but we highly tailor it to who the person is and what sort of their. Passion is. So like we have somebody who, he was a Michelin trained chef, so food content obviously is a big part of his strategy. Um, we have someone where she used to be a bodybuilder and then, uh, she loves sports, so we sort of tailor it a little bit more toward that. Not as much, but a little bit. Um, **Jeff Sarris:** but also all the **Amara Andrew:** mine, I love history. **Jeff Sarris:** All the tactics that we use, we’ve seen. Things happen. Taken all of our disparate inputs and crafted our own version of these things. **Amara Andrew:** Exactly. **Jeff Sarris:** And iterated on them because they work. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. And made ’em so much better. **Jeff Sarris:** So we’re not **Amara Andrew:** just, and that’s what you have to do. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. And that’s why we actually, everything has its own term. **Amara Andrew:** Mm-hmm. **Jeff Sarris:** Like we do videos that. Appear to be similar to other people’s, but we call our scoops for a reason and then we do ’em the way we do for a reason. It’s not the same as everyone else. **Amara Andrew:** Right? Yeah. There’s a very strict formula that we adhere to for it, but then I would say **Jeff Sarris:** format **Amara Andrew:** or, yeah. What’d I say? Formula. You said **Jeff Sarris:** formula, which is format. But yeah, we do evolve our formula. Constantly. So we have four minute, you’re like it’s broad enough. **Amara Andrew:** Yes. What’d you call me? **Jeff Sarris:** So are you, **Amara Andrew:** thank you. Um, I lost my train of thought. Choo, there it goes. We really are the same person **Jeff Sarris:** literally **Amara Andrew:** in the meeting today. **Jeff Sarris:** So yeah, we had a meeting with two people we’ve never met before. We were talking to them for about five minutes, nine minutes. Nine and a half minutes. And then what did the, the guy say? **Amara Andrew:** He’s like, do you do everything together? **Jeff Sarris:** Like, yeah. He was like, do you guys ever get any alone time? **Amara Andrew:** And I was like, no. Why? **Jeff Sarris:** He’s like, we don’t want alone time. Our alone time is together. Our alone time is together away from other people. That’s alone, isn’t it? **Amara Andrew:** And I was like, wait, no, we’re not in a cult. It’s just not. Well, **Jeff Sarris:** you still not famous, not famous **Amara Andrew:** coat. **Jeff Sarris:** Welcome. **Amara Andrew:** We spend too much time **Jeff Sarris:** together, time together. Finish **Amara Andrew:** each other’s. I love you. Cheese. Oh, **Jeff Sarris:** and crackers. **Amara Andrew:** You can’t call me that **Jeff Sarris:** if this is your first episode. No, we’re not editing any, we don’t edit this. This is a straight shot. You know? **Amara Andrew:** I know that’s, oh, we were supposed to try live streaming this, **Jeff Sarris:** so we’ve been talking about live streaming. **Amara Andrew:** Yes. **Jeff Sarris:** There’s, **Amara Andrew:** I want to do it. I’m just very anxious because I know myself **Jeff Sarris:** well. No, but it’s also, it’s weird. We’re, we’re starting to. Really get a feel for why that’s valuable. You had a really good insight the other day. What was it? **Amara Andrew:** So good. So **Jeff Sarris:** damn right. You’re like, my insight so good. **Amara Andrew:** I’m like the best at insights, tiktoks, creator insights, I got nothing on me. Okay? Anyway, but in this age of ai, when you can’t tell, is this video real? Is this video fake? The thing that’s gonna really what I think for this year, especially because like Netflix is doing so many different live events right now, it feels like live entertainment is the moment. It’s in the zeitgeist right now. So we’ve been playing around with different ideas of how. What type of live stuff that we can make, like what kind of live entertainment that **Jeff Sarris:** would be worth it? Both for us and for anyone out there. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. And like I tried live streaming a very long time ago. I tried it multiple times and I felt like such a fucking idiot it. **Jeff Sarris:** And so, **Amara Andrew:** and then I had people **Jeff Sarris:** commenting on my **Amara Andrew:** video and then I was like, ah. And **Jeff Sarris:** then I panicked. This is the thing we have to say though. You didn’t try it. You turned it on and turned it off. Yeah. Three times. Like we don’t count that for anyone else, so we can’t count it for ourselves. **Amara Andrew:** When **Jeff Sarris:** people are **Amara Andrew:** like, well, if somebody said, I tried it three times, I’d be like, no you didn’t. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. Tried it three times over the course of four years. **Amara Andrew:** Fair enough. **Jeff Sarris:** But you know what I mean. Shots **Amara Andrew:** fired. **Jeff Sarris:** No, but we’re also with this, doing what we say, tell people not to do. Don’t spend all your time figuring it out to get the best thing, do it. We have not done that, which we’re very aware of because **Amara Andrew:** yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** It’s not easy. Like we say the things because also we need to know the things too. We need to be reminded ourselves that like we have to just do it and try it and iterate and figure it out. **Amara Andrew:** And that’s what I’ve, we have figured out for the local content platform that we have. We have that. Our secret local content platform, don’t follow it. If you find it, don’t follow it. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. And if you find it, you can look at it, but just don’t follow it unless you are local to where the platform is. **Amara Andrew:** Yes, please. **Jeff Sarris:** Because that’s, we wanna keep the, we experimenting integrity of our. Our listener profile. Our audience profile there. Yes. So if suddenly, if we have people from out of town and it’s a hyperlocal platform that throws off what the algorithm thinks who it’s for. **Amara Andrew:** Yes. But we do have the, an idea for what the live streaming can be for that. But for my own personal, I was like, well, when I record content, ’cause I’ve gotten back into recording my own personal content, which has been interesting. Um. I was like, well, maybe I could like film that session, just like live stream it and just show sort of what the process looks like because it’s not glamorous. It does take a lot of time and I have a lot of takes when I’m trying to record something and eventually it’s almost like verbal processing. So when people need to talk through their ideas in order to find whatever it is that they’re trying to get to. That’s basically what it’s like for me now because I, I don’t have any bullet points. I have one main idea and that’s it. Whereas normally I like to sort of have more of a bulleted list of what I was gonna talk about, **Jeff Sarris:** but we talked about it last week that we’re making an effort to teach by example and through stories. Yeah. Instead of conventional teaching, which is what we have just done **Amara Andrew:** well. Yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** And that’s my **Amara Andrew:** background. **Jeff Sarris:** Is it, that’s the bulleted list, the like. I’m gonna say this, then this, then this. Because you need to know this. Yeah. But instead we’re trying to be like, well I’ve discovered through reading this book through making 14,000 videos through da, da, da da that this hap when this happens, that happens and stuff like that. ’cause then it’s more of a story or going somewhere. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. And I know it doesn’t seem like it, but it, or it might not seem like it to people, but it does feel very vulnerable. ’cause I’m talking about me and I don’t do that. Like I, I. Have consistently, like I was trained in and taught that you take yourself out of whatever it is. So like in history, in the history field, you’re not supposed to have your personal voice as much. You’re supposed to just present the evidence and just be like, this is what it is. **Jeff Sarris:** Okay. Now present the evidence verbally. **Amara Andrew:** Oh, showering is an excellent hobby. **Jeff Sarris:** Okay, now. Present it with your voice. **Amara Andrew:** I love showering. Showering is where I get all my best thoughts. This is why I think showering is the best hobby. **Jeff Sarris:** I, I mean, I thought you would just make a funny voice. So that’s all I was going for. We didn’t keep going. I **Amara Andrew:** didn’t, **Jeff Sarris:** everyone. Deep breath. **Amara Andrew:** Oh dear God. **Jeff Sarris:** And then slowly release. **Amara Andrew:** That is one of my favorite videos online ever. **Jeff Sarris:** No, I was gonna set it up for the second release, however. **Amara Andrew:** Oh, we’re, **Jeff Sarris:** we’re a little off our, off our day. **Amara Andrew:** The day. I know. Well, ’cause we’ve spoken so much already today. I feel like I haven’t like **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. But I did think it was funny, like, don’t you have any alone time? It’s like, no alone together. This is what we liked. Like we have chosen this life **Amara Andrew:** alone together. **Jeff Sarris:** But that’s what it is really. **Amara Andrew:** No, I feel like that’s like our first album if we ever release music. **Jeff Sarris:** We have plenty of songs. Just saying that **Amara Andrew:** sounds like a very emo album. I like it. **Jeff Sarris:** When I was like drawn together, it was **Amara Andrew:** also, the music in that place we were was so fucking good. That was like, I dunno, I couldn’t pay it. I have that thing where like if we’re talking to people and there’s a song that I know on or that I really like, I’m just staring at them, but I’m listening to the song, I’ve realized. **Jeff Sarris:** But I was gonna say Drawn Together was also a great title for an animated series that was in the DC universe. Dave used to watch it when we first met. **Amara Andrew:** Oh, that’s **Jeff Sarris:** cute. And so it was like Superman and all these other characters that were, I think they were disparate characters, but they were drawn together. **Amara Andrew:** That’s cute. I like it. That’s smart. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. That’s fun. **Amara Andrew:** There should be like a Valentine’s Day thing like that. Valenti **Jeff Sarris:** Valentine, **Amara Andrew:** Valentine’s. **Jeff Sarris:** All the Valentine’s. **Amara Andrew:** We watched a documentary where the woman just kept saying Valentine’s and I was like, just fucking Valentine’s. **Jeff Sarris:** Um, **Amara Andrew:** time’s like a fork. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. Consuming things. Other people’s aren’t, other people’s aren’t cons consumes, but we’ve, we’ve, we’re doing, it feels like an unlock for us because. We’re going into much different areas of expertise and mentioned screenwriting, learning some about that, that that is still connected even though you wouldn’t on its face. It’s not because it’s still it’s story. It’s how do you actually get a story that anyone would care about. **Amara Andrew:** Mm-hmm. **Jeff Sarris:** Like one little thing in a movie, in a story. Every character other than the villain has to change. They have to be changed from the opening image to the closing image in some way. Now that like saying that sentence is like, okay, but when you really, you don’t think about that. It’s not something that has ever come to my mind. I don’t know if it ever came to your mind, but for a story to make sense. It can’t just be a hero who does this thing and saves the day, and that’s it. Then that’s why it feels empty when the story doesn’t feel right. But suddenly now to be like, oh, everyone has to be changed in some way. You can go back through all your favorite movies and be like, well, how is so and so changed? And it’s like, oh, whoa, they actually were in this way. And then the beat character and that way. And then the, not Bumblebee, but A B, C, **Amara Andrew:** bumblebee **Jeff Sarris:** Tuna three four. **Amara Andrew:** A cue. It is like, it’s one of those things where you see it and you know it happens, but you don’t realize it, and you don’t internalize it and really think about it. But then as soon as we read that. Every single thing that we’ve watched when we’re just like, eh, it doesn’t feel like it’s getting anywhere. It’s because there has been no change at all in the character. And then it’s like, that’s what it is. Like that’s that little secret sauce in there. And then that’s what you have been, ’cause you’ve been in the director’s side for my content. ’cause I just, I need that right now. **Jeff Sarris:** Well, you can’t be the director for yourself. So that’s what we do for other people. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. And I’m used to doing that for people because I, I can see where certain things are missing. It’s hard to do that for yourself. So that’s what you’ve been helping me with is like, well, what’s the transformation in this piece of content from here to here? Like, what did you, what’s the story? **Jeff Sarris:** And by that I just say, stop teaching. And then you’re like, oh, okay. That pretty much, that’s the shorthand for everything you need to say. That’s, **Amara Andrew:** that’s helpful because I like, I do get back into my teachy ways where I’m like, you know, and then it’s like. **Jeff Sarris:** Or you should, or you need to know this because, or **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. That has been so hard **Jeff Sarris:** because we don’t realize we do it because ev everyone, but it’s weird **Amara Andrew:** because I don’t do that. When I talk to people, I’m not like, oh, you should this, **Jeff Sarris:** you should that. Yeah, but you’re performing. Your version of performing is teaching and teaching very directly, which is has always been my struggle too. Mm-hmm. But because we listen to everyone. Yeah. Like everyone, we know all of our friends we’re the listeners of the group. **Amara Andrew:** Mm-hmm. **Jeff Sarris:** Like of anyone. So we’re used to people talking about themselves. Mm-hmm. Because people are very good at that. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** I am not. And I don’t feel like you are either. Like, we’re not good at talk even today. They asked some questions about us, but **Amara Andrew:** then we deflect it. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. We, we give an answer and then flip it. Yeah. And then it’s back to their talking. That’s **Amara Andrew:** my default. **Jeff Sarris:** That’s what we’re good at because we are listeners and we wanna learn more about other people we already know about ourselves. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** So it’s hard to then translate to social media when you’re just like, tell me about you. Who I can’t hear **Amara Andrew:** exactly. Like, that’s what’s so hard. ’cause I’m, yeah. I’m very used to hearing from people and I’m curious about. Other people like that was a really good way that you put it. It’s like, well, yeah, I already know what I am and I know what I’m doing. Like it doesn’t really matter. But then we’re also the worst salespeople for ourselves because we Well, you’re a lot better. **Jeff Sarris:** You. I hold the mic up to wave my hand. Yeah. **Amara Andrew:** I was like, can we hear your wrists crack? What are we doing here? You could, they sell like a piece of peanut brittle, **Jeff Sarris:** but so we sell, it’s what it is, is we don’t sell an interventional way. We sell in our own way, and it’s very effective, but it’s also jarring to people because it’s not normal. **Amara Andrew:** Oh yeah. Because we don’t sell like a salesperson. We don’t sell like a cheesy car salesman. We sell like a high level salesperson. **Jeff Sarris:** We sell like manipulative assholes. **Amara Andrew:** Damn right. **Jeff Sarris:** No, but **Amara Andrew:** Wall Street. **Jeff Sarris:** But yeah, it’s not, we’re not in sales. And we’re, so this is gonna be very self-aggrandizing to the, the collective self we have between us. But m and m **Amara Andrew:** grown and rolled my eyes, **Jeff Sarris:** m and m, **Amara Andrew:** the the Gen Z M&m. **Jeff Sarris:** No, not baby. No money, baby, no money. Um, Eminem is notorious for, in the rap battles, he would always talk about all of his own flaws. So then his like opponent had nothing. We just naturally sort of do that, and that’s how we sell. Like our sales aren’t, you need to buy this. Our sales are, I mean, it’s, it’s not cheap. It’s pretty expensive because we do this and this and this, but. We do this and this and this. You don’t have to worry about anything at all. And that’s it. And then we’re done with our sale. People ask questions and then it’s like, if you want, do you wanna talk more? No. Okay, cool. Whatever. And then people will come back later on their own without us being like, Hey, we talked three days ago, Uhhuh, have you thought about, we’ve talked seven days ago. Have we? **Amara Andrew:** They’re just like, sorry. **Jeff Sarris:** Well, yeah. People come back, like, we had someone come back very recently and like, oh, sorry, we’re not dead. But, um mm-hmm. We, we, I had a few more questions, but we definitely wanna like talk about working together. Yeah. And. It’s perfectly fine. Like we’re not a hard sell. And I think that’s jarring. Like it’s sweet when people say sorry and apologize. Yeah. But also like we weren’t waiting for it. And I think that comes across too because it’s like, yeah, we’re all, we’re all just doing our thing. This is how we’re making our livings. Like us other people, if we can help, we can help. Like, because it really is, it’s not needing it when you’re desperate for money. Are desperate for a client. Yes. That comes through and that is very off-putting and sort of the used car salesman, sort of like what you said, the cheesy car salesman. Mm-hmm. That is sort of the tactic ’cause it comes off needy because you’re so focused on this. This one sale. **Amara Andrew:** I mean, that just happened the other day when we were at the mall. We had dinner. And we went into a store. ’cause I needed to buy one thing. Like I never shop in person, ever. I never go to the mall really to buy anything. ’cause also I’m trying to shop more local too for our platform. **Jeff Sarris:** It was a local mall, but it was a chain. **Amara Andrew:** Well yeah, it was just, it’s like literally a worldwide store. But I went in there to buy one thing and the like, I forgot. ’cause I had made the mistake of going in there once like two years ago in person. I was like, never go in there again. It was like such aggressive sales and like I worked in sales. Like I, I know what it’s like when you need to like beat out everybody else and just be like, no, you’re gonna talk to me. **Jeff Sarris:** Well, **Amara Andrew:** which is why I know the cheesy car salesman thing so well, because I was the cheesy car salesman. **Jeff Sarris:** So you walk in the door. Just made the door sound **Amara Andrew:** here. **Jeff Sarris:** Hi friend. What are we coming in for today? **Amara Andrew:** I know, I was like crawl out of my fucking butthole. Like **Jeff Sarris:** also like we were like in a conversation too. I know. And then, but it’s like that, like, hi friend, da da da. And it’s like, okay, we’re not friends. Oh. Like **Amara Andrew:** it’s **Jeff Sarris:** fine to, it feels. It feels too artificial already. It feels salesy. **Amara Andrew:** Well, yeah, it felt like, okay, this person’s one like kilometer away from jumping off a building, or not even kilometer an inch away from jumping like it. It’s just that like sad, like, hi, how’s it going? And it’s like, that’s actually really scary. You can just see the like the woo-hoo. Uh. But it was just, it’s fine to be greeting people when they come into your shop, blah, blah, blah. But it was just so intense and we made it three feet in and then I was like, oh yeah, I’m just looking. I know exactly what I want, but I also wanna look around. ’cause I know that’s like universal for just leave me the hell alone. The person then is like, oh cool, well we got this. And then, okay, what else do you need? And I was like, Nope. If I wanna look around, I’ll come get you if I need you. **Jeff Sarris:** So you’re describing your side, uh, very differently because of course in your mind that’s how you’re thinking, but you’re like, oh, no, I’m good. Thanks. It was just, it was very polite. You, **Amara Andrew:** I said, oh no, I’m just gonna look around. Yeah. Because I don’t wanna be an asshole. Exactly. Like this is how they need to their family. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. Like in your head, you’re, I know, describing what’s in your head, but I want the, the listener, the listeners to know like, yeah, it’s, it’s how. How everyone knows us already. You’re just like, oh, no, thank you so much. I don’t need any help. Oh, you silly doose. **Amara Andrew:** And I tossled their hair and sent them off with some more milk and cookies. **Jeff Sarris:** But it’s a lot. And the store is, uh, 20 by 20. **Amara Andrew:** Oh, it’s **Jeff Sarris:** very small. And there’s four salespeople, and we get two feet further and a different person watching. It’s like, oh, what brings you in today? It’s like, okay, **Amara Andrew:** this, **Jeff Sarris:** but, but this, so our sales are very different from that. Yes. Those are sort of the, the. Two ends of the spectrum, like our thing that we’ve talked about before is we are there for you as Maven as like what is maven.com? We do everything that people need in terms of marketing. **Amara Andrew:** Mm-hmm. **Jeff Sarris:** Even further with business and strategy and design and website. Like anything we just sort of get in the door with marketing. But the thing is, we’re there for you. So how do we convey that? How do you sell that? You’re there for someone, as you alluded to, as he said earlier. We were everywhere. We were at every single conference that this group of people would be at. So who’s always there? Maven. And then people say, is Maven gonna be here? Uhhuh? And I said that like emphasis was weird, but like people asked, other people will tell us that, oh, so-and-so asked if Maven was here. **Amara Andrew:** Well, and they knew, we’ve had people who didn’t know the name of our business, but they knew of what we did. Mm-hmm. And they were like, oh, that was you guys. And it’s like, oh yeah, that was us. Like with our VIP and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Either the work or. The VIP sessions that we would do at the conferences. Mm-hmm. So it was just all these different things, which obviously is not by accident. **Jeff Sarris:** So I call that the work too, when I, when I mean that, but I just mean like the Yeah. Do you do, but the, like the work speeds for itself because the VIP session was a, an elevated VIP experience where they get content out of it. Mm-hmm. So that is the product. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** Plus the content. But it’s like the in person is even more, but yeah. Our sales are different. **Amara Andrew:** Yes. **Jeff Sarris:** And that’s what we’re hope, hoping to help with this too, talking through these sort of disparate ideas. ’cause people teach you how to do sales a certain way. **Amara Andrew:** Mm-hmm. **Jeff Sarris:** If you read our quote unquote book on sales, everything’s wrong. But it’s effective because it’s us, it’s real. **Amara Andrew:** And I don’t wanna shit on people who need to do sales that way. Like do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself and your family. But it just was a little like. Whoa. **Jeff Sarris:** Oh, well. No, but also just that there’s different ways to do it. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** So we’re talking about a completely different, anyone listening now is consuming something that isn’t being talked about in this way typically. It’s not that we like invented this. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. We’re very weird podcast. **Jeff Sarris:** Oh yeah. But it’s not that we invented this, but it’s not, oh, I need to know the sales formula to close this deal. This isn’t that. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** But it works and it works for us. And it’s something where you can now be like, oh, they do it. This, if you are like, how can I change what I do? It might be, oh, they actually do it that way. It’s like they’re always there for ’em. Well, what, what is my business? What is my sort of core of what I do? **Amara Andrew:** Mm-hmm. **Jeff Sarris:** How can I embody the, the message? How can I embody what I do? Not that you’re at every conference or at every coffee shop or whatever it is. But there’s something, there’s something you can embody that people will just feel and know without you telling them. **Amara Andrew:** A hundred percent. That just gave me another idea. If we ever go to another conference, **Jeff Sarris:** I mean, we are going to another, **Amara Andrew:** well, yeah, we have one in the, one in the chamber, so to speak. But that just gave me a really great idea. We’ll talk about it later. ’cause I was thinking it’s, or I could guess we could just talk about it now. **Jeff Sarris:** Well give me the, uh. It’s **Amara Andrew:** just a little gimmick in context, just like a little silly gimmick thing. So like, this is actually how we talk, but I don’t bury the lead. I’m just like, blah, blah idea. If so, we’re always there for you. We always take care of people. That’s part of our, sort of our brand, like sort of what we have. It’s like the unspoken part of our brand. **Jeff Sarris:** So we’ll dress like cult leaders and just have people follow us who are all just beaten and bloody. **Amara Andrew:** Well, there’s, yeah. **Jeff Sarris:** Got it. **Amara Andrew:** Does that sound good? **Jeff Sarris:** I mean, it sounds exactly like a Tuesday. **Amara Andrew:** I was like, what’s today? It’s Friday. Uh, **Jeff Sarris:** not when are you listening? It’s Monday **Amara Andrew:** help. So get ready for tomorrow. But if we’re at the conference and it’s about like taking care of people, making them feel okay, like that’s always for sure. Number one. Um, if we actually had like a lot of women at these conferences wear heels. Your feet must be horrifyingly hurting by the end of that. Oh, not **Jeff Sarris:** smelly. Okay. **Amara Andrew:** And smelly also because I just wear vans. ’cause I’m like, I’m not fucking dealing with that. No way. And I can’t wear heels anymore anyway. But, um, ’cause my foot does that weird thing where it like crunches when I step on, well anyways, is doesn, I digress. Whatever we weird. But women wear heels **Jeff Sarris:** since the amputation. I can’t wear heels. I’m like, where you going? **Amara Andrew:** No, since **Jeff Sarris:** remember talking about ourselves. We’re not good at this. We’re trying to figure out storytelling. So just, just bear with her for a minute. She’ll, she’ll get there eventually. **Amara Andrew:** I keep having all these thoughts because this has taken 75 minutes to spit out. But if, uh, I carry those little like tube, uh, flats, like ballet flats, they have them. I think they actually have ’em in Vegas, which is where the conference is gonna be, where we’re going. But they have like a little vending machine thing where you can like, it’s like getting tampons outta the machine. You can get these ballet flats out and put them on. If we just carried those around and gave ’em out to women who had heels on, it’s like a prevent, it’s like a prophylactic where it’s just like, I know you’re gonna need this, but not creepy. Well, coming from me, it was a good idea. Then it just got weird. ’cause I’m taking care of you. And then it has Maven on it. Branding. **Jeff Sarris:** Mm-hmm. **Amara Andrew:** You’re welcome. I had good ideas today. I was on fire in that **Jeff Sarris:** meeting. Yeah, you had some really good ideas. I mean, also you just had to make a video about a missing cat. I **Amara Andrew:** know we saw I, that actually made me really **Jeff Sarris:** sad. We’ve never done that before, but we saw an actual, like, old school taped on the pole thing. I know my cat’s missing if you find it. So, uh, a little sweetie here just posted a video about it because **Amara Andrew:** I was just like, we have to stop. I didn’t put any Tootsie Frootsie branding on it. I didn’t even put my tag at the end. I know. You’re just like, what are you doing? But it felt more like a, a, it is just a different video. It felt gross to put Tootsie Frootsie on it, like. Uhhuh. I’m not that kind of person. I know it’s stupid because if it gets shared to a bunch of people, I, no, it **Jeff Sarris:** doesn’t matter. I’m being **Amara Andrew:** stupid, but I **Jeff Sarris:** can’t, I was only looking at you because you just said the name multiple times. Maybe I’ll censor it. We’ll see. Please, if you get a **Amara Andrew:** beep **Jeff Sarris:** when she said it **Amara Andrew:** before, please censor it. Ah, see beep. You can tell though, I feel very natural in this podcast, Uhhuh, because I was talking about beep. **Jeff Sarris:** Oops. When I do content in your region, **Amara Andrew:** I didn’t realize, **Jeff Sarris:** I think two or three times, at least twice. By the way, her social security number is enough. **Amara Andrew:** Oh wait, let me get that card. It’s somewhere around here. **Jeff Sarris:** Okay. I think what that will wrap. That’s a good spot to go. **Amara Andrew:** So if you’ve seen that Katie, uh, call **Jeff Sarris:** the **Amara Andrew:** owner. **Jeff Sarris:** Oh. But also one thing tonight we’re going somewhere and someone had reached out to Hill and asked if you’ll be there because they wanna meet you. Yeah. Like how sweet is that? That **Amara Andrew:** was very sweet. **Jeff Sarris:** And then, yeah, they had more **Amara Andrew:** insight. I always have the pressure though, of like, I hope I don’t disappoint them. **Jeff Sarris:** Well, no, **Amara Andrew:** I always feel that pressure. You **Jeff Sarris:** always **Amara Andrew:** will, when people are like, oh, I wanna meet you. Like, can you do like a, not even a meet and greet, but like, they want to meet me know **Jeff Sarris:** two people ask for meet and greet, so don’t **Amara Andrew:** know. But it sounds self-aggrandizing. I **Jeff Sarris:** know, but they did say you made it up. They **Amara Andrew:** literally said meet and greet. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. If you made that up, that’d be psychotic. You actually, I, I think it’s real, but you made it up to me and like, I don’t even know. You’re **Amara Andrew:** just like. **Jeff Sarris:** No, but it’s like sweet. And that’s so sweet. You said, I don’t wanna disappoint. And I said, you will. Not that you will, but you never wanna meet your heroes. I mean, I said it and you just went right past it. So it sounded like the meanest thing. I could have said anyone if anyone’s listening. Um, but no, it’s really sweet because the person wanted to meet and was like, uh, do you know about this? Like, oh, you can, you can park here and da da da da. Like, I dunno. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah. It was like very sweet. **Jeff Sarris:** Yeah. **Amara Andrew:** But. **Jeff Sarris:** Any who, **Amara Andrew:** so I might be doing a meet and greet at Via. **Jeff Sarris:** Well, yeah. You’re not doing a meet and greet tonight, but you’re gonna meet someone. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah, **Jeff Sarris:** maybe multiple people. Just, it happens when we’re out in public. Yeah. But yeah. Okay. We’ll see. But that, let’s wrap. **Amara Andrew:** Okay. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Name is Amara. I’m gonna go Farra driving in a car. That’s Jeff. Sara. Why’d you stop my beats? **Jeff Sarris:** That was a sorry attempt at my last name. **Amara Andrew:** At least you have **Jeff Sarris:** one. People don’t know how to say my last name, so **Amara Andrew:** I know they say sars. They don’t even know your last name. **Jeff Sarris:** It’s, it’s spelled the same as Harris with an S. **Amara Andrew:** Yeah, people are do. **Jeff Sarris:** Bye **Amara Andrew:** bye.