Not to assume it’s impossible because you find it hard, but to recognize that if it’s humanly possible, you can do it too.

—Marcus Aurelius

Well, let’s unpack that.

Who Was Marcus Aurelius?

Marcus Aurelius was a stoic. He, Seneca and a couple others are the stoic philosophers. What? They’re the guys.

But the beauty is they talk about things that apply to us today, 2,000 years later. And this is one that’s very, very applicable.

It’s actually really funny because I was looking up another quote from Seneca in the context, because you just said, what about this? And it was like, perfect. We haven’t even talked about this at all. Because normally we plan out a little bit, not to show you how the sausage is made.

Well, no, but this, we’re trying some exploratory episodes. We’ve talked about exploration last week, not having objectives. Last week. What a week it’s been. But we talked about exploration, and that’s something that’s super valuable.

So this week on the show, we’re exploring. Yeah, we’re going to have a little bit more of just a free form conversation and see where this goes and see if I put my foot in my mouth like I always do.

The Seneca Connection

But when you brought that up, I was like, there’s a quote and I couldn’t remember exactly how it was framed, but it’s there is neither good nor bad. Only thinking makes it so. And I was like, what motherfucker said that? One of my favorites?

Yeah, and you’ve brought it up so many times and it’s so helpful. But we can talk about that later.

Well, wait, did you figure out who it was? It was Seneca. However, what was interesting, this is actually a little mini history mystery that I just solved. It’s largely attributed to Shakespeare.

And I could not, I was like, no, this motherfucker didn’t come up with it. Like, I know it was some old ass guy and I was like trying to remember. I couldn’t remember who said it and I didn’t want to bother you because you were like reading over your whatever, or you were answering an email, whatever it was.

So I was like, I’m going to find it because I’m like solving these little history mysteries. And yeah, everyone is attributing it to Billy Shakespeare, also known as Billy Corgan. Yeah, B Shakes. That’s what we call them. Billy Shakespeare. B Shakes.

And yeah, it’s actually Seneca who wrote it first. But isn’t that amazing? It’s like this person came up with a thought originally or maybe Seneca even read it somewhere and we have no idea who that original original source.

Everything is Remixed

So bingo. That’s the thing. That’s what’s wild about all of these things. Everything that the Stoics wrote they learned from someone else. Everything is repackaged. Everything is remixed. Forever.

And like Marcus Aurelius learned from Seneca. Seneca came maybe 50 years or 100 years before. It doesn’t mean one is better or one is right, but they were almost at the beginning of written word.

So how many generations of people before said these things that still apply to us today? It’s why I find stoicism amazing. This is why I find history fascinating.

But like just that stoicism specifically because there’s sort of tenets of the philosophy and they almost universally are just core fundamentals to being a human today or 2,000 years ago. Yeah, it’s fascinating.

Like, it’s so funny not to go down the history rabbit hole, but I love history. Well, you said history mystery like three times, so you’d say it again? I know, History mystery, History, mystery tickles my fancy.

The Field Museum Tangent

Anyway, maybe we should do free. I mean, I thought you were going to say tickles a pickle just because you’re rhyming everything. I mean, that one didn’t come in front of mine, apparently. What the hell was I just going to say?

Oh, I was at the Field Museum yesterday, which if you don’t know what that is, it’s a museum here in Chicago. Absolutely beautiful building. It was built for the World’s Columbian Exposition in 1893. The museum itself, though, is about sort of the history of the natural world. Very complicated history there. I’m not even going to unpack that.

But I was in one of the exhibits yesterday, my favorite, which is the ancient Egypt exhibit. And I was with my mom and she’s like, whoa, Egypt was 3,000 years? Like it spanned over 3,000 years. And I was like, yeah, so many people forget how long that time period is.

But anyway, it just, Marcus Aurelius reading Seneca, a hundred-year gap. Like you forget that these people weren’t just like, hey, hanging out together. Like there’s a huge time gap between all these things.

So anyway, I’m not going to go down, but everything informs everything else. That’s the concept of steal like an artist. Like every artist steals in air quotes because that’s like, we’re like, oh, don’t steal. You can’t take this thing.

But everything is a remix of everything we’ve learned throughout our entire lives. And there’s certain things. Let’s take sort of math and science and things like that. Things that are very passed on. Like you go to school, you learn math.

You sort of like you’re at five years old, seven years old, whenever you learn like numbers and addition and stuff like that, I have no idea how old we learn that. But like that’s something that’s given to you.

It’s something that people have figured this out years and years and years and years ago. And it’s been used so many times since, and it’s still applicable to us now.

The One Thing You Can’t Teach

But there was one thing, and this I have to say, it’s a tangent that I’ve never thought about, but I came across recently. Someone said this on a podcast and it really just sort of clicked in.

We can give children things like math and science and understanding of all these things that we learned from someone before us who learned from before them. But the thing that you can’t just impart upon someone is meaning.

Because everyone has to find their own meaning. And that’s not something I can tell you how I define meaning for me, but there is no way that I can give you meaning by telling you that.

So can you actually define your meaning? Because I have a different idea of meaning. So like, because I come from an art history background, this painting has meaning because of the iconography in here in a certain time to a certain group of people, granted that meaning shifts dramatically.

I totally forgot what my argument was because now I’m just thinking of all these paintings.

Well, I’m just realizing. So I said meaning and I mean like personal meaning. So like purpose. So like. Yeah. So that was why I was asking.

Purpose vs Knowledge

So purpose. So we can impart things upon other people. And that’s a new starting point.

So thinking about SpaceX trying to get to Mars. If no one had invented a space shuttle yet, to try and colonize Mars would, it’s not even a stepping stone. We talked about stepping stones last week. There is no stepping stone to go from not even having a car yet, like in 1900. No one invented a car. You can’t just jump to space shuttle.

But someone born today who’s interested in engineering and things, we can impart everything that we know about a space shuttle on them from day one of when they couldn’t comprehend it. But we can never impart purpose to someone. Like a purpose in life. I wake up and this is why I’m here.

We can’t impart on someone. There isn’t a mechanism because it’s a completely different thing. It’s such a personal journey. And this is a huge departure from what we’re talking about with this quote, but it’s something I found super fascinating this week to think about.

Finding Purpose Through Action

Yeah, that is interesting because then I think so a lot of people that we work with, they work in real estate, they’re realtors. And I feel like a lot of people get stuck in their business where they don’t feel happy with it anymore or they don’t feel good.

And part of that to try to feel good is getting the dopamine hit of like the rah, rah, like I’m going to this conference or I’m talking to this coach or whatever. And you get that motivation and it’s temporary, but it doesn’t help you find your purpose. It doesn’t get you any closer to that. It’s sort of like making you feel good temporarily.

And then you don’t actually feel good permanently, if that makes sense. I don’t know. I keep losing my train of thought.

Well, no, but it doesn’t develop to something else. It just sort of is, but it’s not helping you get closer to finding your purpose where, like you said, like you can’t teach that to someone.

It’s, you can feel a certain way about a certain thing, but the purpose, yeah, like, where do you even get your sense of purpose? Because like, that has to purely just come from within. It’s like accountability.

You can have all these things set up for you, like an accountability and like be part of all these different groups and all those different networks. Billy Shakes are the original accountability Billy Bud. That was his first business, and then he’s like, yeah, fuck it. I’m going to try to write something.

But you can have all these systems and things set in place, but I feel like it does nothing unless you already have it inside of you.

So this was the thing. This came from, I think it was a clinical psychologist. I forgot his name, but like an MD doctor who said this. And what really tied to everything that we talk about is that the only way we can find a purpose is through taking action and doing things, which I fully agree with.

Like when I’m not doing and like achieving something, so maybe that’s growth. Maybe it’s learning, maybe it’s like diving into a topic. Maybe it’s building something, creating something. If I’m not growing in some way, that day, I generally feel down.

Not depressed, but I feel like, man, the day is very just meh for me. And I think because the way that I’ve found sort of the purpose for me is through creating and doing something that I feel like I’m better than I was yesterday.

Yeah, same. Which is why, well, like we’ve talked about in other episodes, we kind of got in a funk the last year because we weren’t necessarily growing and doing other things that helped us grow and helped us move forward with, move forward, however, whatever that means, it doesn’t have to mean like, oh, I built 75 businesses or I made a gajillion pajillion dollars, like Billy Shakes, but just moving forward in like progress in a way, but whatever that means, whether it’s just I feel good. I feel happy I feel fulfilled.

Well yeah, and it’s just, it’s an interesting thing that we can’t impart fulfillment and purpose on someone. And it’s sort of like that can get down the philosophy and like religion, rabbit hole. And I’m trying to not go too far into it, but it is a very interesting idea.

You can’t help people with their purpose. That has to come from within. And they can only experience life to then inform that feeling within. So if we’re not doing anything, we’ll probably feel depressed and never have a purpose because we haven’t explored anything.

I feel like our topics are going to be a lot more about exploration now. Just because everything ties back to that. It feels like. And I think that’s hugely beneficial. Because if you’re not like, that’s when I’ve felt the best because I’ve always loved school as nerdy as that sounds, but because certain topics, certain ones I don’t even want to touch.

But like, especially in like college and grad school, because it’s much more specific, like you get to pick what you do more, kind of, not 100%. But I loved that because it was like, oh, I’m going to take this random fucking class on Japanese art or whatever. Or like, I’m going to take a yoga class and learn actually the principles of yoga, like the actual foundation in Sanskrit, like doing all that, because I just found it interesting.

But I didn’t realize it was that same vein. Like that’s why I always felt so positive about my college. And you’re like, why do you love your college so much? Like this is really weird. But it was because of that exploratory nature where it was like, I’m just going to take the most random classes I can find because I find it interesting. Like the weirder the better.

School as a Framework for Exploration

I think I just, I think I solved for X here. Uh-oh. So let’s hear it. Lay it on.

I kind of want to call this episode Billy Shakes.

I think school specifically for you works so well because innately, you want to explore. However, school gave you an objective to explore within.

Because like you want the objective and you want to check things off. I’m saying not in a negative way in a positive way. I want to be like, I’m getting better and growing and moving forward and exploring. I like applying what I’ve learned to something. Exactly.

So the objective was applying what you learned to school. Ooh, I don’t like this. No, but it’s interesting. Don’t analyze me.

But now, like, if we can take the objective out and still explore, you get all the same benefits and more because now it’s not confined. So it’s not for a thesis paper.

But talking about what we’re talking about right now, I didn’t listen to a podcast to have this conversation on our podcast. This was a throwaway line that someone just said because of what they’ve experienced in their clinical practice. And I’m here touching the trees. Go touch grass. You’re like, I’ll touch this fake bamboo instead.

But he just said this in the context of the conversation and it was something that clicked in my mind that I was like, oh, that’s really interesting.

Gathering Stepping Stones

But this is the concept of gathering stepping stones. Like, we’re talking about, this is a very meta conversation. Like, it’s a double meta. Billy Shakes. There’s too much anticipation. Patience. You’ve been watching too much Rocky Horror Picture show. I know you’ve never seen it. I don’t watch that. You should. It is fabulous. Anyway.

The stepping stones that we’re gathering, we’re gathering these stones to do something great. And is this episode great? I don’t know. But I’m actually having fun with this one. What do you feel so far?

I feel good. Maybe a little chilly. Clammy? Always.

No, I feel good with this, actually, because we don’t have, again, the objective of, well, now I need to come up with the how to implement what we’re talking about. Like it’s too confined, which I like having rails like that sometimes, but I feel like it almost, this is again, showing how the sausage is made, but I feel like it stunts our conversation sometimes.

We definitely have. This is so meta. Like we have objectives every week unless we really don’t have an objective and our objective was to talk about not having objectives? And then it’s like, okay, well, now I’m going to teach you how to not have objectives. Then it’s like, well, I’m also fulfilling my objective to tell you not to have an objective. So this actually confused.

We’ve talked about this, that the podcast might become pure exploration. And I feel like we’re sort of talking ourselves through it right now. I think we should because this feels so much better and more natural. And then I feel like we can actually have a deeper conversation and bring in other things instead of just having it be like, I want to say this. Now you say this.

And like tying it back to like video and stuff. Like someday, I don’t want to fucking talk about video some days. I don’t even want to think about it.

Well, yeah. And the goal on here isn’t to talk about video either. It’s to talk about being useful.

But then, yeah, we do give it the context of whatismaven.com where we travel all over the film with our top bananas in their market to a hyperlocal platform where they can be useful to their community and make a lot more money. Not famous, useful.

Fuck fame. But yeah, we don’t need to talk about that. You know? We don’t need to bring up all the things like Hiveway that we’re doing to make it easy for people to create their own hyperlocal content without having us there in person because you’ve created all of the actual, you practically call them like meal plans or like flashcards to create content very simply on their own without a videographer.

And basically in five minutes time, create a video rather than spending all the time to prep and plan. We don’t need to talk about that because we’re just having an exploratory conversation. It’s a lot of fun.

Are you done?

Back to the Original Quote

I mean, we still have our main quote that we had talked about, about something feeling impossible or not. Because I need to talk about whatismaven.com.

Okay. What’s impossible? We can do anything with our life. Like a documentary, for example. Oh, Jesus Christ. That we might have announced. Call me when you’re ready.

And a couple hours later today, finally, is it announced today? Today, when this show, when this episode is out. Finally fucking talk about it. But yeah. That’ll be fun. It’s exciting. I guess. I could even want to. You can talk about it right now because this is going to come out in, what, 17 days?

No, in a few days. So back to the, so the original one. Read me that again because we’ve gotten so far away from this. But this has been fun. I like this. Fun for you. Exactly. This is work. And that’s all that matters. I have an objective. I object.

Okay, so not to assume it’s impossible because you find it hard, but to recognize that if it’s humanly possible you can do it too.

The Steve Jobs Example

And that’s the interesting thing, is we can do whatever we want with our lives. Like, we’re not trapped. And like, you had sort of Steve Jobs stuff that’s really fascinating.

I’ve been reading his, the biography by Walter Isaacson. Thank you. I keep saying Isaac Abramson. I need to look at the fucking. I don’t even know what that is. Now, you talk, I’ll look.

But I’ve been reading the biography and it’s so, so good. It is I think by far one of the best books I’ve ever read.

So the biography, so, so good. I just need to say, real good. Biography. Steve Jobs biography. You should listen to it or read it. If you want her to read it to you as she reads it to herself. Amara reads you books dot com.

But I’ve been reading that. And what the hell are we talking about again? We’ve gotten so far down.

I will read the quote one more time. So this is Marcus Aurelius thousands of years ago. Just get to the quote.

Not to assume it’s impossible because you find it hard. But to recognize that if it’s humanly possible, you can do it.

The Gorilla Glass Story

So in the biography, he is, where I’m at in the book, he’s starting to create the iPhone. Spoiler alert, it happens. And he is trying to figure out a better solution because the first ones that he was looking at had plastic for the screen cover or like as the screen. But like prototypes. Yeah, but he felt that that was very inelegant, which, yeah.

So he wanted a more elegant solution. He was looking for a high quality glass.

But he was looking for a more elegant solution. So he was talking to this guy who worked at Corningware. I think that had a C. I don’t remember specifics, but it was somebody who was part of that and they were like, oh, you should talk to this guy.

So he talks to this guy and he tells Jobs about I think this is how it happened. I’m a little fuzzy. But essentially Jobs finds out that in the 60s, Corningware had a type of glass that was called gorilla glass. Very, very strong. And I don’t know what happened, so I can’t give spoiler alerts because I don’t know what happens in the book for the progression.

Anyway, but he talks to this guy and he’s like, hey, I really want to have this glass. Mind you, it hasn’t been manufactured since the 60s because they weren’t able. Corningware wasn’t able to find somebody who actually needed this strong of glass. So they just scrapped it. They stopped making it.

Fast forward to 2007 is when he’s working on the iPhone. He talks to this guy and he’s like, hey, I really want to get this glass. And the guy’s like, well, we haven’t made that for over 40 years, so I won’t be able to fulfill your orders and things.

And Jobs was like, well, yeah, we need these things within six months. Like I was like, absolutely not. There’s no way. And Jobs was like, no, you can do it. You can absolutely do it.

And that’s what Walter Isaacson calls Jobs’ reality distortion field. And he says that repeatedly throughout the book.

And the guy at Corningware ends up being able to fulfill all of the orders that Jobs needs. And that happens repeatedly throughout the book where Jobs just presses on people and he’s like, you can do it. Like, why aren’t you going to do it? And they’re able to do it.

Like, it’s not glamorous. The people have to work very long hours. They’re very tired. They’re very pissed off. But they eventually get to that endpoint and it’s so much better than they could have imagined and they feel so good about that.

So anyway, when you said that, it just made me think of that moment where then that’s what made me think of that Seneca quote, not Billy Shakes, where it was like, there is no good or bad. Only thinking makes it so.

So what you think will happen will happen, just like I keep manifesting that birds are shitting on me. And they are. I don’t know what it is. I’ve been shat upon multiple times this past week. It’s good luck, allegedly.

There Is No Good or Bad, Only Thinking Makes It So

I know we’re not the biggest on mindset in that, like what it is because it’s sort of been bastardized where people have just been like, well, just don’t do anything and just think your thoughts and everything good is going to happen. And people sell that. And it’s so fucking stupid. Like, I’m sorry if that’s what you’re into, but it is very, very foolish because no matter how hard you think things are going to happen, if you don’t take the action to actually do it, nothing will happen.

Well, yeah, you need to be positive, of course.

There’s neither good nor bad only thinking makes it so, is like from the stoic philosophy, there’s no utility in worry. So if I’m worried that there will be a meteor strike next week.

Like, if I’m worried about that actively and it happens, that’s when I should be stressed and worried because this has happened. Now, if I worry about it and it doesn’t happen, I experienced it happening for the week leading up to that with zero purpose other than distress to me.

And like, that’s why I think that quote’s so important is we all worry and stress and we’re worried how things will go. But really, there’s simply no utility in doing that.

And if you sort of tangentially over to the, if you think it’s only impossible if you think it is. Like if it’s humanly possible, you can do it. Steve Jobs knows that. Elon knows that with things. I think he said something recently. He’s like, why have a 10-year plan when you can just try to do it in six months?

Because then it’s like you’re, it doesn’t mean you’re going to get to where you thought you can get in 10 years, but you didn’t get way further than you ever thought possible.

Yeah, that is, that’s very interesting. I’ve never heard that before.

What You Can Control

Oh just don’t worry about things that you can’t control. Because at the end of the day, you can’t control a damn thing except yourself. You can completely control yourself. You can control how you think, how you feel, how you respond to certain things, what you do, you can control every single part of yourself.

But I think that’s kind of scary to a lot of people. And it’s easier to look at your external circumstances and blame certain things or say, oh, if only I had not even like blaming, but just being like, if only I had X then I could do Y.

But it’s like, well, you have Z right now that could maybe get you to to X or Y, but you just, it’ll take a little bit of time and it’ll take a little bit of work, but eventually you can get there.

Like, that is literally the only thing you can control. Again, stepping stones. Like, we can control like how we think and feel. And that step that we take. We’re not trying to invent a rocket ship. We’re saying, I understand how to use a camera.

I want to I need to make a few more dollars. So one step would be to use the camera to help someone else that’s more valuable than the money that they will give me for that. That’s the way I can make money right now. I know how to use this. That’s one step away. You don’t have to build a big business. You don’t have to do anything.

I need to sell more houses. I need to get a new client. How can you be useful? What’s one step away to be useful to someone who right now is looking to sell or thinking about selling their house?

Yeah, that is a very good point. Yeah, everything’s just one step away.

Philosophy vs Mindset

So, like, this is a mindset sort of concept, but I think mindset and philosophy get conflated. And I think the issue is people are selling mindset when all someone needs is philosophy. Like, you don’t need to pay someone for it.

I think the problem that I have with the mindset thing is that people are trying to sell you magic. Yes, that’s the problem is it’s like, well, yeah, just buy all these books and wear a pantsuit and you’re going to be so good and so successful.

And it does like, that’s, this is what makes it difficult because there are certain things like visualization that is an ancient fucking practice that does work and does help. It’s when things get muddied, then there are certain kernels of truth in there, but then it’s repackaged and sold to you and it’s a bunch of bullshit from somebody that’s trying to sell you a course or a whatever or a retreat or whatever it is.

But you don’t need that. You need the principles of it. And again, then this comes down to your self-accountability to do that. And it is sort of a practice. I’m getting a little in the weeds, but just to I guess that’s why, yeah, that is at the end of the day, why I have such a problem with all the mindfulness or mindset stuff, not mindfulness.

The mindset stuff is because it does work, but not the way that other, if somebody’s trying to sell it to you, just don’t listen to them, essentially at the end of the day. If they’re giving it away to you for free maybe, but nothing’s ever free. There’s always some sort of ulterior motive.

Yeah, so. Yeah, for example, if you’re interested in things like this and need some help making content, you can. No. Don’t do it!

Wrapping Up

Yeah. I mean, I think that’s good. This is fun. I like this episode. I like the free form a lot better, I think. And like we love talking about philosophical things. I love philosophy. It gets me so excited.

Next week, we are going to dive into, let me pick a random thing. We should talk about the sublime.

I just went to grab a random, so we use Readwise. It’s amazing. You can go to readwise.io slash maven, I think, to get a discount. I forget what it is, but you’ll see our face at the top if you go there. I love Readwise. That honestly has changed how I read books and how I subscription ever. By far. It’s like eight bucks a month. It’s awesome.

And I just swiped. We could literally be like, this will be next episode.

Life is about not knowing and then doing something anyway.

—Mark Manson