Almost everyone’s making this mistake

Almost everyone's making this mistake with brand messaging. They're either trying to be everything or end up showing up as nothing at all. What a pause!

That was dramatic. Yeah, today we're talking about boxes, why we hate them, why we need to fit in them to some degree, and how to do it without the ick.

I'm glad we're not kitties. Meow. Welcome back to Video Is Fun Not Famous.

This is a show where we teach you the how and why to create video content to build a better brand. I'm Amara Andrew.

And I'm Jeff Sarris.

And I'm pointing at everyone.

It's funny you said kitties, because this is this idea is based on an article I wrote, an essay like in 2015, and it's called "Man in a Box," and the overarching thing is kitties.

Really?

Yeah, you haven't read that. But like the whole point, okay.

I did read it. I just don't remember that.

Yeah, anyway, today we're talking about boxes. Let me just throw 5 minutes on the timer. If you're new to the show, the show is three segments.

We have three 5-minute segments with this little handy dandy timer. First one is why, second one is what, third one is how. So, first we are talking about why we need to fit in a box and then we'll get into how we do it, but…

Yeah, so tell me a little bit about why this topic? Why do we need to fit in a box?

Yeah, in the in the what section we'll talk about what we were up to this week, but this came from conversations this week at a retreat that we were filming, and it was We were talking about brand. And it is sort of unpleasant to have to fit in a box. You comfortable?

I don't I never know what to do with my arms, so I'm always like this, but it looks closed off.

No, do whatever feels right. Chill.

Or I could just do this.

Yeah, everyone listening loves it.

So, as I was saying.

But yeah, so it was, how do I actually create this brand message when I don't want to be in a box? Which is completely understandable. Like we are so much more than any one thing.

Like let's just real quick. So for me, people know me for various things. They know me now for MAVEN, so organic content marketing for realtors.

SPYR, so that's brand and design and marketing.

Well, and you're introduced as SPYR Jeff.

Yeah, on The Minimalists podcast for minimalism because of The Minimalists and our documentary Minimalism. As the host of the Kidney Stone Diet Podcast because of that. Like there's so many different things and in the back and the past it was paleo porn, there's other things we can go on and on.

But then what about you?

Well, most importantly, my love.

Damn right.

But what are just a quick little few bullet points of boxes you would fit in? Oh man, I mean anything and everything, which I think most people can relate to, which is why it's such a difficult topic for everybody, because none of us just want to be one thing. We want to be all the things.

So like for me right now, obviously MAVEN, people literally think MAVEN is my name, which is pretty cool. I mean Amara MAVEN, I'll take either name, which is really pretty fucking sweet. But right now it's MAVEN, people before have known me for art history in various different facets, like whether on my TikTok or as their teacher or…

Yeah, 'cause you taught at Columbia College Chicago for art history.

Yes.

Because of TikTok, which is a whole other story we talk about on other episodes and we'll bring it up again, but…

Yeah, and then as an archivist at UIC, University of Illinois Chicago, and Art Institute, a couple other different places, but just all these different things, or even a freaking barista at some point. Like people in our town knew me as the girl at the coffee shop. Like I would see people out and they'd be like, "Oh hey!" and I'd be like, "Hey, honey almond latte!" or whatever.

'Cause I would just call people by their drink orders, 'cause I found it funny.

You just called them almond latte?

Yeah, I'm like…

And you just say, "Hey, honey" to everyone.

Pretentious latte, much? No, but it's just it's how you know people, because you need to have Well, we'll talk about this more.

Well, and that's what I want to dive into…

Yeah, you go. You go for it, honey.

…next. Well, yeah. Because we don't want to We're not in any single box, but that can be debilitating, because it's like, okay, like I'm everything.

Let me just tell everyone I'm everything. And it's like, "Oh no, I need to be in a box." Well, I don't even know where to start. How do I get myself into a box to tell people, because I'm so much more than a single box?

But the big thing we want to talk about is you want You need some sort of box to fit in so people have a way to understand what you do and to spread the word about what you do, but that box doesn't have to be everything. That box is just a taste to get them in the door, which is really important. So, one thing that you can think about is the concept of a portable story.

So, a portable story would be something I can embody and tell and show through who I am and what I do that then others can take and transfer onto other people, so they spread the word for us. It's organic marketing. It's it's just…

What?

Yeah, it's a viral form of marketing. Not viral like content like we think, but viral content marketing in that it is a virus that spreads throughout the community.

So, give an example of how we've done that.

So, I mean, specifically with who we are, I was MAVEN specifically. Like I was going to say like our little box, the little taste of who we are is that we do it's video for realtors made simple, and that is just to get people sort of in the door. It's like, "Oh, they're videographers.

It's like, oh, they do like listings. Oh, they don't do listings. Okay, well we don't have to lead with that because they assume we do listings." And then we start to go a little further, and a little further, and a little further, but then with time people learn that we also do brand, and product, and strategy, and everything else that goes into being a successful entrepreneur.

All the things like what I've done with SPYR, like my brand agency, is help people build six- and seven-figure personal brands. And what we're doing is we're helping people build their personal brand in real estate, but we can't say all of that. We can't That can't be our message.

Who's going to be able to spread that?

You don't think that goes over well at like a cocktail party where everyone's trashed? Time.

That was quick. A quick first segment, but…

Sorry.

…just to wrap it, so we need to give that portable story, so people are able to say, "Oh, this is they're MAVEN. They do…" People say this, this is why I'm going to say it this way, "They make awesome videos for realtors," is what like a lot of people tend to say.

And we make them feel comfortable, first and foremost, as well, which is another portable story.

Yeah, and that's how they feel. It's how they feel. So, that's the thing is it's like the story of just who we are as a tiny little box, video for realtors, and then they're just like, "Oh, but you're going to love You're going to have a good time with them.

It's going to be fun." And we sort of inject that in our messaging on the website, too, right up top. The basically the second thing, third thing that's said, is you'll also have a lot of fucking fun. And it's like that just shows we're not just all buttoned up and serious.

Yeah, so having that categorization is really helpful, because otherwise then it's like, "Who are these two long-haired people? They're not in real estate, so what are they doing at this conference?" And like we're not just videographers, it's so much more. So, lately we've been I mean, even with this podcast, we've been trying to tell people more and more what we do and who we are, because otherwise people are giving us labels, which is fine, it's worked out, but you kind of need to be in control of the narrative to an extent, not a control freak, but enough to be like, "Okay, this is where people are going." Like, videographers, that's such a tiny, tiny label, like you said, for everything that we do.

So, it's like, "Okay, how do we pivot and change that story so it fits more the category of what we are?" which is a category of one.

-huh, yeah, and the category based on who the story who this portable story, who this message is for. So, in the real estate space, we work specifically in this video for realtors made simple lane. But like you were just saying, and I'm glad you said it because I wanted to touch on it, then we'll get to the next segment.

But if you don't create this story, this narrative, if you don't fit in some sort of neat little box that someone else can share for you, they will put you in one unwittingly. So, that was a conversation that we had with someone was he was actually really disappointed that someone from a stage with a lot of influence referred to him as their athletic friend.

And he's like, "But that's not That's not what I Like I He may be athletic, but that's not the story that he's trying to spread," and it's like, "Oh, that actually hurts, 'cause this is this is creating a new portable story that doesn't align with my goals and outcomes."

And he's in a competitive market with a lot of other well-known sort of quote-unquote, like I hate the term, but like celebrity realtors. So, I can see how that would be taken as diminutive 100%, 'cause it's like, "No, no, no, I'm so much more than that," which he is. So, like getting to talk to him and everything, it was just incredible.

But, yeah, that's like it's I think the person who said it meant it in a nice way, I mean, of course.

Of course.

But it's hard, because it's like, " but I'm a million other things."

Yeah. So, we need to choose what that tiny box is, where we begin. So, let's move on to the what segment.

Let's throw the little time on the clock. So, what were we doing this week that this topic came up and what are we up to?

Yeah, so this is the second year we've filmed a retreat, and it was I loved it. It's It's just enough woo-woo for me where it's like, "Ooh, we get to dive in," and it's like very wellness-focused, but also still with a business curve and everything. So, we were at this retreat with like a nice, intimate group of people, and it's just like it's kept intimate on purpose so then you can actually like have connections and things, which is something…

That's our thing.

Yeah, we've talked about, like not to be like super open and vulnerable, but we're kind of missing that here at home is the connection with people, and especially like driven people who are like, "No, I want to do this, this, and this." And it's hard, because we go to a lot of different conferences and the amount of connection you can make with people is very, very limited, because we're all trying to talk to everybody.

We're all trying to talk to all the people that we don't get to see that often. So, and that's the benefit that we get, though, when we get to go to our Top Bananas, is we get to connect with them, see them in their place, like their place of living and everything in such a unique way, which is really cool. So, we get to connect to an extent, but then the people that we don't work with, we don't really get to connect with as much.

So, that's why this retreat is really cool, because we actually got to like have one-on-one time with people that we've seen, but haven't really gotten to spend time together. Or, new friends!

Yeah, and I just wanted to say 'cause I said "that's our thing," meaning the intimate setting is our thing. That's our lane. That's how we connect with people most.

Yeah.

And that's why we really like this retreat specifically, because from last year, we have this little core group of people who are still just sort of forever bonded. From this year, a new core group. What's really funny, unrelated, we just we have a new group chat…

Oh, yeah!

…as of yesterday. Like, another intimate setting. We had a dinner that was the best dinner we've ever had in our lives.

This was unrelated to the retreat. This was like months ago, in like October, maybe. And it was the funniest, silliest, like just It was a riot of a time, and just yesterday, someone from that dinner created a chat group on Instagram of just the people who were there, just because even though it's months later, he just was like, "I want to share this to everyone from that dinner."

And it was just chaos at the dinner and now in the group chat, and it's I love it. It's beautiful.

Yeah, but there's there's a magic to the intimate settings. It's It's almost easier to it's so hard to throw any event, but it's almost easier to be like, "Here, let's just have 100, 1,000 people," because it's sort of it's not really as bespoke for the individuals. It's just like, as a whole, this event will provide this.

But when you get those little intimate settings just right, there's something really special there, and you're you're bonded like going away to camp with friends.

Exactly. Well, and that's the key word, too, "just right," because it has to be highly curated as much as you can control. Like the dinner, it was a very curated group of people and it worked perfectly, because we're all kind of fucking nuts, so it was like perfect.

Well, and there's overlap. Like it's Everyone wasn't the same archetype of human.

Yeah, just like but all have a sense of humor, and that's like super, super key for that dinner specifically. But, yeah. Anyway, it was it was a good time and just like enough of sort of a reset in a way.

And like we're lucky, because we also get to sort of partake in it, as well, so I was like, "Ooh, I've never done a sound bath," or whatever, and I don't know, I felt rejuvenated.

Yeah, yeah. It's a different experience. Again, we're like very privileged being that we do video for and with people, but they all also welcome us into like their lives in a very unique and, in a way that isn't lost on us.

And I think we've talked about it We've talked about it a ton, but I think on the show we've talked about it before, too, where people welcome us into their families and we have dinners and meet their children and different things that you just typically don't get. So, like none of it's lost on us. It's all we appreciate all of it.

I love it. But, yeah. And I've just been working on like in addition to the retreat, some new content ideas for me, which I'm excited about.

So, it's going to be really stupid, but that's what makes me excited.

Well, yeah, and we're we're pivoting slightly. We're shifting. So, like our compass is still aligned to where we're going,

Yeah.

But we're shifting just a little bit to do a little more for us again.

Yeah, we're sort of clearing out some of the old and making way for the new, which is good.

Yeah, and the old being even like, so I have my partners and clients at SPYR and there's projects that have been in the works for a very long time, and I'm trying to wrap as many of those as I can.

Time.

To I'm trying to wrap as many of those as I can so then I can make room for all of these things that we're so excited to be building to further help people create content and we're sort of codifying some of these different lanes of tactics that can be used holistically into a strategy to really help realtors do something special, so we're excited about all that.

Yeah, 'cause we have our specific strategies that we use with our Top Bananas, who are our MAVEN clients, but being more holistic of an approach and looking at these other things that work for different personality types and different types of people, 'cause what we do will work, but it may not work for people on a level of what they want to do, and that's completely fine, because like why do you have different genres of music?

Again, categorization and boxes. But like why do you have different types of music? Because not everybody wants to listen to Bach or Beethoven or Social Distortion or whatever, you know, the three main composers from the Baroque period.

Fine.

I crack myself up. Anyhoo, but I totally fucking lost my train of thought, 'cause now I have…

Well, yeah, so we're we're we have the strategy that works with time, that compounds, but then also now we're pulling other tactics from others who are doing certain very specific things strategically and very well, and now we're improving we're expanding our holistic strategy to have to be able to sort of move pieces in and out in a way that we couldn't before.

Yeah, 'cause we're always going to do evergreen content. Evergreen content is going to be the most important content that you make, by far. I don't care, I will die on that hill, but then incorporating…

Well, no, that's just true, 'cause again like…

Like, literally true.

…like we've done this now for years, but also like this is all I've done since 2009. It's like exactly what we're doing with MAVEN, except more in the written word than the video word.

Yes, sorry. I put oil on my arms, and they keep sliding across the table, if you're watching this. But, just a little bit more timely tactics.

So, not changing the strategy, but just specific little things. So, anyway, on to the next.

Sliding everywhere.

Also aren't aren't simple to do currently, so we want to simplify all that for everyone.

And we're back! So, for the how section, let me throw 5 minutes on the clock. We have our little timer here.

That's the sound that it makes.

Okay, so brand is what people think and say about you when you're not around. So, how do we decide what we want people to think and say about us when we're not around?

Yeah, so like we discussed, having autonomy in what people think and say about you is basically key. So, it really all comes down to like a feeling. So, like just as an example, imagine our little spaceship, if you can see it, if not, if you're listening, there's a spaceship in the middle of the table.

Imagine a little spaceship comes down out of the sky. What do you feel? Do you feel happy?

Do you feel excited? No, you feel kind of terrified and anxious, because you don't know what that is, first off. You don't know what's in it, especially if a little being comes out.

I don't know, it's a really weird example, but essentially you feel anxious because it's something unknown, and that's kind of what humans don't like. That's why death is like a really big fear for most people, because it's the unknown. So, anyway, blah, blah, blah, I digress.

Let's go to happier topics. So, how can you become known to people? How can somebody already meet you and like they've seen you on social media, especially nowadays, like most people see each other on social media before they meet in person, specifically in real estate.

How can they feel like they already know you? So, something that I would recommend doing is writing down three things that you absolutely love. It can be whatever.

Three things that you absolutely love, or you love to talk about. So, for example, like for me, history, art, ideas, things like that, just ideation I find interesting. It could be yoga, where you absolutely love yoga, you've taken years of yoga, you're even a yoga instructor, like whatever it is, and then talk about your journey through yoga, you could talk about poses, like whatever it is, just talk, pick those three things, and make content about those and share that, because then somebody will have a better idea of you, and you're in control, because you automatically chose those things that somebody should know about you.

Well, yeah, you're you're giving people a thing to think and say about you when you're not around. And ideally, then you want to connect that to what you're doing. So, if it's real estate, like you want people to think, "Oh, he or she is a yogi that does real estate." Like that's fun and easy.

Like Kevin is a chef realtor. Like he is a professional…

Are you going to say he was a yoga instructor?

But, yeah, he's like a professional chef who turned realtor, and that's a way people can connect. Like when he met Chris…

Yes.

Chris is not in real estate, but Chris was a chef, and they were best buddies immediately, because people like us do things like this, so we get an identity and a relationship with people who we relate to.

Well, and especially, too, when people find out that you are involved with The Minimalists and minimalism, that's another thing, where it's just like, "Oh, oh my god," and it fills in the gaps for them, where you're just sort of this enigma, you're a blank slate. They have absolutely nothing filled in for you. It's kind of like a puzzle.

You have none of the pieces, you don't even have the edges filled in. But when you can give people a little a little then that can make a bond like immediately, so then people have a better way to sort of contextualize you. Again, they're going to fill in some pieces that you maybe don't want filled in, or they're just going to fill in things regardless of what you say, but at least you have that framework in place where they can sort of go from that, 'cause that's hugely helpful.

Yeah, and so that's boxes. So, you're putting yourself in some sort of box for people to understand. But then that's not the only box you're in.

Yes.

Like say the yoga the yogi example. Like you can be in that little box, but then you realize like, "Oh, this person also is all of these other things." But you don't have to show everything up front,

Right, it's

Because that's overwhelming.

Yeah, and that's like the invitation to be able to talk about more. So, maybe you'll find out, "Oh, you love this random brand of cacao," or whatever, like whatever it is. I keep going down the hippie-dippie route.

Or like someone we met at a conference, I saw we had the same exact phone case. That It's a very random phone case, like I've never seen anybody else with that exact brand and everything. That was an immediate connector, and then we found out we have a lot more in common, as well.

We're like basically twins, which is very weird. But that's like another sort of jumping-off point, where then it's like, "Oh, okay. Now I kind of want to discover a little bit more about this person." And maybe that's the only thing that they're going to have in common with you, and that's fine, but you can talk about it, like you and Dan.

Do you care to share one of the things?

So, wait, I don't know I don't actually know where you're going with it, though.

A certain football player?

I mean, that's not what we have in common, but we were just talking about things and…

It came up with like plastic surgery,

And how Tom Brady definitely is…

Time.

It came up about plastic surgery, and how Tom Brady definitely has had plastic surgery, but Dan is convinced that he has not. So, that is a running debate that we have amongst ourselves.

I love it. It's one of my favorite things.

But, and that could've been part of the brand story,

Yes.

Because we had an idea to do a podcast all about things that we might not agree on and debate about, and I wanted to call it "Tom Brady's Face." And that would be that would then become part of my identity that people then have as a portable story. So, like some people have the story of Kidney Stone Diet, and because I host that podcast, so like people have that story of me, and that's the that's the message.

Like that's what they think. That's the box they put me in. And that's fine, because I don't have to only be that box.

I can also be MAVEN, and then I can also be SPYR, I can also be like minimalism and The Minimalists and all that. Like all of those boxes all come together to make me. So, even if I feel uncomfortable, like I don't want to be like the guy from Kidney Stone Diet, doesn't matter.

It's just that's a way people can qualify quantify who I am.

I wonder what box you would put me in?

Well, now I don't know.

I know, it's hard, because we're We know so much about each other.

Well, yeah. This is different. It'd be easier for other people.

Yeah. I don't think I want to know. I'm good with my boxes.

Well, no, because like we know everything about each other. 'Cause that's the thing. The box Maybe that's a good point.

Like maybe that's a point that we should actually be considering that we haven't, that the boxes are meant for not awareness, but like organic reach. Like organically connecting with new people.

Yeah.

That's what the boxes are for, but anyone who knows us, like Kevin, like I said, chef realtor, because 'cause that was a portable story I could say. That was a something I could say about Kevin that would tell you something about Kevin. But we never think about him as the chef realtor.

He is Kevin, and we know all the things about him.

Yeah.

So, I think the boxes, I think that's what it is. The boxes are just to give people an idea if they want to learn more.

. Yeah, that's a good point. And the exercise that I said earlier, it has to be introspective, 'cause again, like I just asked you, "I wonder what" or I remarked, "I wonder what box you would put me in." You can't help me with my boxes!

I need to figure out what those boxes are, and you don't know until you start something. And like your boxes can change, what you want to have people know you as, like that's the beauty of it, is it's not permanent, and I think so many people get caught up on the, "This is permanent. This is forever," and like so many people then struggle with that.

It's analysis paralysis. Literally, you just have to pick three things. Maybe you like to eat ham, you like to play trombone, and you like UFOs.

Then you're a weirdo, but at least…

You're a ham-owner, UFO- and that's it!

I knew you had to go there, I saw it on your face. I saw the twinkle in your eye.

What did you say? What did you say right before that?

That oh, it doesn't have to be permanent, it can change.

Yeah, so we didn't even say that there's tens of thousands of people who know you as the person who taught them how to create stuff for Etsy.

Yeah.

Because like you have you did a lot of videos around that, and that's not part of your like that's not a box that you live in at all anymore.

No.

But that wasn't even that long ago, and people still every single day, or at least every single month right now, still see your Etsy content and think of you in that one way.

Like I'll get DMs, I'll get random people following me or asking me questions, like, "Oh, how did you transition from not using a Cricut to a Cricut?" and I'm like, "I haven't thought about that in 700 years," I'm like, "What did I do?" But, yeah, that for sure, or about National Piñata Day, and things, or mocktails, or whatever.

Like there's so many different things that we've done, but people now know us just as MAVEN, and that's perfect, like that's fine.

Well, because we chose that. We chose that box.

Yeah, and I think that's what a lot of people get hung up on, which this is like a whole other, this is like a dissertation topic, but making the perfect grid and not having it like It's going to be messy. You're going to make weird things and…

And when you say that, you mean Instagram.

Yeah, Instagram or like TikTok, sorry. There's a hair tickling me and I'm choking on my spit at the same time, but just don't be afraid to be messy with it. So, like my TikTok, I was posting all the time, I kept going, and then I just stopped.

That was the biggest mistake. I will never do that again, even though I did it a couple months ago again, but this time for real. But it's just such a weird mixture of things, because it's like not only art history, but now I'm talking more about video stuff.

So, now I have realtors following me there, too, which is really weird. So, it's like this interesting hybrid, but I'm picking the two or three things that I want to talk about, and that's all you're going to find on my channel. So, unfortunately, no more Etsy stuff, but I've found my new lane.

So, still all related in art and things like that, but…

Well, and it's all still you. Like you can change, we all change.

Exactly.

That was you in a snapshot of time, and some people will see you, don't laugh at how I said snapshot.

No, I wasn't.

So, yeah, that's all it is. There's snapshots in time. Nothing is set in stone.

And it also, just to wrap up, someone, okay, this was a portable story and this was a box that you were put in, but in a good way. Somebody at a conference we were literally just at last month knew you from something you did 10 years ago. It was paleo porn.

As soon as she found out that was you, that was an instant connection and that was something that, again, it hasn't really existed for a very long time, but that was a thing where immediately it was like, "Oh, okay. I have a better frame of reference for you. Now we can talk about this, we can talk about all different types of wellness," like all those different things.

So, anyway, that literally just happened, which was really funny. So, anyway, I digress.

Yeah.

There you go. There's your box. Enjoy your boxes.

So, I think we'll wrap there and we'll see you next week.

Box it up.

See ya.

Bye. Ba-ba!