Fake it 'til you're patient (ie. How to be extraordinary)

[00:00] [Music]

[Laughter]

Welcome back to the What is MAVEN? Podcast. I'm Jeff Sarris.

And I'm Amara Andrew.

This week we're talking about patience. I should look at you, not her. This week we're talking about patience, when you've got it,

When you don't,

And what to do next!

[Laughter]

But yeah, patience is something that's so important and we differ on our levels of patience, so this'll be fun.

He has more patience with me.

She's testing my patience. No, I'm–

Always.

But yeah, so this is what we're talking about, patience. We're talking about it a lot yesterday together.

Yes.

And I think this'll be a really good topic to dive into. How's the volume in your headphones? Mine's a little hot.

Mine's a little low.

Little low? How's that?

There we go.

Okay.

I think I'm deaf. When I was working out, I was listening to music really loud, so I think I can't hear right now. [Laughter]

It's okay. And we're recording from the floor in our living room in case you, are not watching. You should be on YouTube watching this watching this right now, but this is where we sit.

You can watch me strangle him earlier. [Laughter] Speaking of patience. [Laughter]

But yeah, I mean, typically for us, we're standing, standing desk, or sitting, or being active. We don't really sit on the floor. You don't sit in chairs.

Well, yeah, we rarely sit in chairs. We have many chairs in here and we don't use any of them.

Yeah. It's just comfortable to sit on the floor.

I love sitting on the floor. Like I grew up– well, that was weird, but I grew up–

You've not grown up?

Never! [Laughter] But I grew up sitting on the floor, primarily, just because I don't know, it's nice and it's here, so, I don't know, sit on it.

So, where do we start with patience?

Well, are you, do you consider yourself a patient person? This is where our conversation started yesterday. [Laughter] I've no patience for his answer! [Bonk noise]

Yes.

Oh my god, can you get there quicker? I am in a hurry. [Laughter]

Would you consider yourself a patient person?

This was interesting because I've never thought of patience for myself. Like I try to work on things for myself personally. I know you don't at all, so. [Laughter] Just teasing.

Never. I never try to grow. Growth is against my– Anyone listening to this wouldn't even know, but my whole purpose of life, if there, if one has one, for me, mine is growth.

Because if we're not growing, we're only dying. That's the sole purpose for my entire life, but go ahead.

Yes, and I agree wholeheartedly. And I've never thought–

Yeah, you do.

[Laughter] I don't know, keep going. I've never thought of patience for myself. Like I know I can be extremely impatient with things, but I try to kind of take the approach of like, "Well, what else am I doing?" or "Why…" I kind of try to take the Buddhist philosophy whenever I'm feeling angry, upset, sad, whatever, and just be like, "Okay, well, why am I feeling this?" Like allow yourself to feel the emotion and then just be like, "Okay, well, why do I feel this right now?

Like what is it that's like that like what's triggering something?" I hate the word trigger. It's so overused right now, but what's that thing that's just like igniting that like sadness or fire or like, "I'm going to kill this person." I've never killed anybody that you know about. [Laughter] And like, why do I feel that?

And trying to kind of figure it out. So then, "Oh, okay. So, now I know in the future I can totally avoid that." So, TL;DR, I think I'm mostly patient, but I do have a breaking point.

Like I used the analogy yesterday of like when you're waiting for a cup of coffee. If it takes 5 minutes, whatever. 10 minutes, I would start to get pretty irritated cuz I'm like, "It's just fucking pour the thing.

What are you doing back there?" but that's my I think also sort of it's an expectation cuz we kind of were talking about this yesterday.

Well, yeah, that's what– Yeah, I kind of wanted to touch on that specifically that it is an expectation of things outside of our control. And this is going to tie in to starting a business, being extremely successful, and sort of how to become more patient.

Yes, it will.

Yeah, how to become more patient. I said more patience. How to become more patient.

Yes, welcome to our Patreon! [Laughter]

But, yeah, so it's going to be about those topics. But first you wanted to touch, practically, as us, but it's expectations. That's what it really comes down to when you– when we think about it.

So, like I have innately always been patient. This isn't going to be about expectations, but you know what I'm going to say, but the– the one thing growing up, like when you would get say candy at Halloween, you would get it all, some people would eat it all right away. I would save all my favorite ones.

But the problem would be by the time I'd finally open it, they were usually chocolate. Are you drooling?

I literally just spit on my glove!

You're thinking about You're thinking about what I'm about to say! [Laughter] Halloween candy. But by the time I would eat the chocolate specifically, it would all have turned white, not bad, it's just so old because I delayed that gratification because I was saving it for that moment that I would love it. And that's really like how I'm wired.

That was so weird to me to learn cuz I was like, "Why as a kid would you wait to eat your candy?" Like I would also ration it out to try to get it to last until like Christmas or something, but I mean that was like best case scenario cuz then it's like, "Oh, okay. Then I get more candy for Christmas." So, it's just like–

I had a candy jar.

What was your candy jar?

It was an ice cream cone.

Oh, that's cute. So, you put candy in your ice cream! [Laughter]

You would have really loved it, but anyway, keep going.

Yeah, I just kept mine in my pumpkin, so. My head! [Laughter]

I mean I had a year-round candy jar though, I'm just saying.

Oh, yeah, I wasn't allowed to. We didn't really have candy or sugar in my house. We had like weird organic sodas and stuff.

See, that's what's funny. Like I had access to it all the time, but I didn't go for it.

That's interesting.

I'm not a sugar person. I collected candy.

Well, that's fun. What a weird little kid. No, I'm just teasing.

You were a little cutie. Where were we going with that?

So, with you–

Oh, patience. Yeah.

So, this is driving me nuts. There's like a hair right here.

Oh, so you're impatient. Clean.

Okay.

There we go. Study of impatience. Patience is something that is an art form, I feel.

Like it is a constant practice to try to get to be patient.

I agree on the practice. The art form, I don't know about, but practice for sure.

Well, I'm talking out loud. I'm thinking as I talk. [Laughter] But yeah, definitely a practice for sure because it's something that you constantly have to be aware if you have those feelings. Like we looked up the dictionary definition for patience, and it was essentially just having a feeling of anger or anxiousness around something because it's not being fulfilled in a timely manner that you, yourself, think should be done.

Yeah, your expectations of things outside your control is sort of our It's what we were talking about together, and then we looked up the definition, and basically it was that. So, basically, patience is a philosophical concept, even though I've never heard anyone talk about it that way.

Yeah.

And But it is, realizing what's outside of our control is I just like this quote, but it's, "Nothing is neither good nor bad. Only thinking makes it so."

And once we can really internalize that and realize that waiting in line for coffee or whatever it is we're we're being impatient about something that isn't within our control, so it is us trying to invoke our own control over something that is uncontrollable.

-. Well, and we could have controlled everything up until that point in a manner of speaking, cuz like when I worked at a coffee shop I would have Like the reason why I thought coffee specifically was because I'd have a lot of very impatient customers, even though they could I literally would run through the whole place cuz it was like the morning rush.

We were by a train station, blah, blah, blah, but somebody would be so impatient every morning, and I finally just said, "Why don't you wake up 5 minutes earlier if you know you have to come get your coffee?" He looked at me like he wanted me to die right then and there, [Laughter] but I was like, "Stop making my morning hell!

Like stop being so impatient." Never was late ever again.

Really?

Never! He was never in a rush after that. Also, he didn't want to deal with me, [Laughter] but I was like, "If you know you're coming to get coffee, don't be impatient." Like I'm literally trying to help 100 people in this place right now.

But anyway, it is definitely a practice. Something that I struggle with, too, specifically for me is social media and trying to grow a following and essentially–

This is very common, too. This isn't just you.

Everybody! Even people who are like, "I'm not worried about the views, the likes, the followers." Couple months later, they come back and they're like, "Why don't I have 100 million views like these other people?" And it's like, "Well, how long have you been doing this, Betty Sue?" She's like, "Well, 2 months." And it's like, "That's why!" [Laughter] You need to I mean, people work on things for decades before they actually get anywhere.

Like, who were you bringing up yesterday? Who were you– [Laughter] This view is great.

Well, yeah, real because I mean these stories are count- endless. Like you could go to MrBeast. I mean MrBeast was I think he did hundreds of episodes– hundreds of YouTube videos before he had a thousand subscribers or something like that, some number that was like, "Oh, wow.

He's the biggest YouTuber now." But the lead up for that was enormous. He was sitting in his car recording his videos in between classes at college or he would skip classes and write and then record them.

I think he skipped classes.

And it was like just because this is what he wanted to do. They weren't pretty. They weren't like whatever.

He was putting in the time with his community, too, patiently breaking down the YouTube algorithm every single day with a group of like a dozen people.

Exactly, like working toward something and making something and making really garbage videos. Like eventually, you will get somewhere because you'll, hopefully, you'll learn from that and be like, "Oh, okay. This didn't necessarily work.

What can I do better, X, Y, and Z?"

That's what I wanted to touch on real quick.

Okay.

Is exactly that.

This is literally how we talk all the time. [Laughter]

Yeah, yeah. Our taste always outpaces our skill.

100%.

Because we got into something because we have great taste. I love say I love podcasting. I love that medium.

And then you start and you're like, "I am horrible at this." But you know that you're not up to up to the bar that you want to be, but that bar will always leave. Well, will always grow. And I just wanted to say real quick, I think that patience can easily be looked I have no patience today! [Laughter] But it can easily be looked at as relinquishing control.

Which is difficult for most people.

Well, but wait, I think it actually isn't. I think I think people see people Many times people are impatient because they are trying to exert control. Thinking of the opposite as relinquishing control in like a negative way.

But when you're patient and you're relinquishing control, so say about creating a YouTube channel, creating a social media, platform, you're patient. "This is going to take me 24 months to see results." Okay, good. "Now I'm going to sit back and wait." No, no, no!

You're going to take control. You're patient and in control of your outcomes in that you are doing something because it's easy to be like, "Oh, well, I won't see results for 24 months. Let me watch Black Mirror.

Let me do this. Let me Let me post I've I've been I post every day. I'm just going to keep posting." No, you're going to keep posting, you're going to see what works, you're going to adjust and pivot.

You're going to take control. Your patience is giving you control rather than relinquishing it. So, like you're relinquishing control over the things outside of your control. [Laughter] I tried to think of another word, but the things outside of you, relinquishing that control, but taking ownership of what I'm doing and how I'm impacting my future.

Yep. [Laughter]

[Laughter] I could see it in your face. I knew you were going to "yep" me.

No, I was listening.

But, yeah, I think that's the whole thing, though, it's control.

You know what's silly?

What?

MAVEN is a videography platform [Laughter] and this is 2 weeks in a row now where my camera has given trouble. Last week was overheating cuz we keep the house pretty warm. Today, I guess I didn't clear my memory card.

Well, yeah, before I we were using my card, or my camera.

Well, yeah, I know, but then I started using my– But, yeah, that's the whole thing is this show is both–

But it's real because these things do happen. Like we do professional videography for a living, but things do still happen. Like it just It doesn't matter what your level is.

But I also just wanted to say that this show is about patience.

Yes.

And that we're also not we're not trying to grow this show rapidly. This is us stretching our legs, getting started on like more the education side of entrepreneurship. But we're also not putting in a ton of effort into the production.

This isn't a big video production. The whole point is to make this easy and also showcase you don't need to overthink things.

And I think that's that just made me think of something. I had a couple thoughts when you were talking before, and that's why I just went, "Yep," because I forgot all my other thoughts. I need to start writing them down.

But in relation to that, I already just lost it. Damn it. [Laughter] Oh! That's why so many creators, I think, burn out because they're impatient.

So, they're making 700 videos a week and they're not taking the time to be like, "Okay, what worked in those? What didn't work?" Like, they're just It's tricky because you need to make a lot of stuff in order to get better, but I feel like it's the very careful balance of making a lot of stuff, but not just making a lot of stuff to get clicks and views and, I don't know, we take a much more artistic approach to content creation versus a lot of other people who see it just like as a money grab, which is totally fine.

Like, neither's right or wrong. But that's why I think burnout is so prevalent just because you are constantly making stuff, and you are not patient to get to where you will get eventually. And I just remembered the other thing from earlier I wanted to touch upon, something that I noticed in myself from this past week, how we were talking about podcasts and you got better at speaking and things like that, and we got better at our craft as we've been going on.

Yeah, outside of the show we were talking about that.

Yes, so on his own podcast, on my own podca- podca– [Laughter] What the hell?

We have a lot of inside jokes and inside, voices, [Laughter] so you might you might hear them sometimes and not have any context, and you'll never get context.

Have patience! [Laughter] But I was recording a couple new I'm– [Laughter] I was thinking. [Laughter] One day you might learn, probably not. [Laughter] Anyway, we'll just laugh at it. But I was recording a bunch of different Etsy videos this past week, just because that is something that, you know, I'm passionate about and I have a lot of knowledge in it now, so I'm like, "Oh, I might as well just share it with people," cuz then I had a lot of issues, so this could probably help people.

You're passionate about the business side of it. It's a tiny little side hustle.

Oh, 100%! Cuz it's like I see these things now that could be better and I don't see a lot of different Etsy creators talking about it. So, it's like, "Oh, well, I might as well just like put that out there for people." But I noticed because I have been on my own podcast, talking constantly to a camera filling 30 minutes or 40 minutes or so, literally just of me trying to be entertaining, but also informing, cuz it's a art news podcast, whatever.

Go check it out. —

By Amara.

Yes, I was just going to say that. [Laughter]

I forgot your name. [Laughter]

Anywhere you get your podcasts. But talking constantly has made me better at being able to talk like this and thinking better on my feet because before I would have to plan everything out, plan out all my scripts, and I would have like I would read it verbatim. Exactly, and like just seeing some people that I've worked with, too, how they also do exactly the same thing, which I find funny because I see it now.

I'm like, "You don't need to read off your script, just like wing it." But now I was doing the exact same thing cuz I was like, "Well, no, I can't just wing it. Like I need to know every single thing I'm going to say because I don't want to sound stupid. I don't want people to think I can't I don't know my stuff," and just like all these myriad reasons.

But because I've had the patience– I'm getting somewhere, I promise– [Laughter] because I've had the patience to continuously record my podcast and that discipline, and recording other videos and other content, I've gotten way better at literally just speaking off the cuff and just speaking what I actually know. So, having that patience– I've been recording videos now for 4 years or so, like four Yeah, four-ish years for YouTube.

I had to itch my nose so I went around the microphone. [Laughter] but that's just helped tremendously and like it helps, too, to get all of your thoughts in line and to talk about things. Like that is why we started this podcast, too, was to get our thoughts in line for various other projects that we're working on to be able to better talk about things and talk to each other in a public sort of format.

Oh, yeah. Educating together. Like that, being able to jump in and add to it without interrupting completely, even though we're still working on it.

We're only a few episodes in here. I don't even know. This might be five, six, four, one?

Is this the first episode?

Last! [Laughter] Welcome!

But, yeah, everything's a practice. Like and so what is the goal? The goal, set goal setting and expectations is important because to be patient with your podcast, your goal wasn't to be better at podcasting.

No. It was literally just to make videos.

But having the patience to see what positive outcomes, and recognizing the positive outcomes as they happen, those are the small wins along the patient journey to growth and building something successful.

For sure. Yeah, it takes a lot of discipline and self-responsibility and reliability, but, you know, you can do essentially anything. And I think also asking, "Why am I doing something?" is really helpful, too, because a lot of people, their goal is to be like, "Well, I want a million subscribers." "Okay, well, why?" "Well, because then I can monetize my channel." "Okay, well, why do you want that?" "Well, because I want money." "Okay, well, why like why do you want money?" "Cuz I need to pay my bills." "Okay, well, let's figure out what the actual issue is because getting a million subscribers doesn't solve any problems.

You're not going to get there realistically, like now. It's going to take 5 years, 10 years. It's going to take so much work that when you see people with a million subscribers, they've done so much work before they even start a YouTube channel, like it's ridiculous."

Well, yeah, and say having a million subscribers gives you this much money.

Exactly.

I'm putting up a big goose egg. It gives you nothing that isn't You need to also have the framework, the underlying, structure and strategy in place where attention gives you opportunity for money. Attention alone is only vanity.

Right. Yeah, you need to have the business and income in mind. Essentially, your social media should just be marketing for your business until it can become something more, if you want it to be.

I only want to say more because I feel like marketing for your business, just that phrase, has a lot of baggage, where I would say awareness of you, so people will know you.

Well, yeah, that's what I meant.

I know it is. I only wanted to clarify just because I know people think business marketing one thing.

No, awareness that you exist, this is what you do, and this is who you are. Now, buy my shit or buy from me.

Well, yeah. Basically, we're building up the know, like, and trust part of who we are. We want people to know us, to like us, and to trust us.

Trust us. [Laughter] How about you? And then [Laughter] And then they'll be more likely to hire us, work with us, buy from us, support us in some way because that is the thing, it's not all about purchasing. Your biggest fans, we have an episode about 1,000 true fans a few episodes ago, you can find it in the feed.

But your fans will be the ones who are spreading the message about who you are, telling people that they love what you're doing. They are your, for lack of a better term, your cult members. They're the ones who are really out there because they love you, and they know what's special about you.

Yes.

They're going to be telling other people. They might not give you any money, but they might drive people who are giving you money down the line, and different things, not money is everything, but this is a business podcast and we have to pay the bills. And you can make money without a million subscribers, without 1,000, without 100.

You can–

It's surprisingly easy, but it's also extremely difficult. [Laughter] Once you–

It's strategy. It's understanding, that's the tough part.

Once you figure out what it is you want your product, business, whatever to be, then obviously do the work to build it and make it something. But then after that, as long as you're doing good work and you actually are enjoying it, cuz a lot of people don't enjoy it, but it's just, "Hey, I can make money from this." You can tell, like there's a huge difference, and like that's I don't know, it's just yucky to me.

Well, and it's patience. What's your timeline?

Yeah.

Because if your timeline is, "I need to make money and I need to make it fast," you're going to do things with money as your North Star.

Right. Yeah, and it's less–

But that's not sustainable.

No, cuz then you burn out and then that's how you hate what you're doing cuz that is just so– What?

I was just going to say, what do we do?

What do we do?

Yeah, what do we do? So, we make independently from one of one another, one of another–

One of another? [Laughter]

–independently from each other, we both make our full amount of income, personal income, to support our lives independently. Like we have like I don't want to say like full-time jobs. Like what we do to make money on our own satisfies full-time job salaries plus more, independently.

Oh, yeah.

And what is it that we do? Because I've been doing this for 12 or 13 What year is it, 23? 13, almost 14 years, I've been doing this full-time on my own, making money.

Why am I not burnt out? Why are you not burnt out from all these videos and stuff? And maybe a little bit on some things, but sort of holistically.

Yeah, only when it bunches up together and then I'm editing for hours and hours and hours and hours of weeks, [Laughter] but after that, then I'm like, "Man, I haven't recorded anything in a really long time," or "I haven't worked with anybody in a really long time." It's been like 3 days and then I'm like, "Come on, people, chop!

Don't you want more videos?" [Laughter] but yeah, it just it we make it fun and we do things that we actually enjoy. And again, like a piece–

And the diversity of things. That's what I–

Yes, like it's all in a similar vein of what we do, but it is very diverse and very different, cuz like I have MAVEN. Well, we both are in MAVEN, but MAVEN, which is videography for realtors specifically, but also just small business owners. And then you help with the strategy and everything for the business side, which is like perfect.

And then, yeah, I have an Etsy shop. I have my podcast. I have other YouTube videos.

I was teaching for a bit. What the hell else do I do? Oh, copy editing and just a bunch of different things, but it's fun because it's all in a creative sort of discipline.

NFTs, art design–

Oh, yeah, I forgot about all that! [Laughter] but it's just so much fun and being able to do all of that is really cool. And same with all of your stuff. Yours is very much like branding, development, strategy, business help, and everything.

Yeah, building businesses and strategy is my thing. So, SPYR is the design business. Built is the web development business.

We have MAVEN, which is a videography business. And then all the other things, so Candystone Diet is about health and wellness, reducing your risk for kidney stones. We do a lot with The Minimalists, which is all around minimalism and mindfulness.

Like we do a lot of different things. And that's why it's sustainable because we're not saying, "I need to make as much money as I can right now." Like I spent a lot of time in NFTs. I helping build projects, helping people grow and do things.

There was a return on that investment, but it wasn't make it or make or break. I didn't have to be like, "Okay, I'm going to I'm I've spent 14 months on this and I haven't made any money. Like I need to find a job fast." No, I have a bunch of different things going on that I enjoy.

And the benefit of NFTs winding down is I actually could then come over and be like, "Let's let's push MAVEN. Let me do more here. And let's work together for the first time like really like intimately we're working together." [Laughter]

Stop! That's for OnlyFans! [Laughter] So…

But that is the thing, the diversity keeps the burnout away, I think.

Yes. So, I want to now touch on then how do you build up your patience muscle or how do you practice patience? Because like we talked about at the beginning, he is extremely patient.

I am mostly patient, but also, [Laughter] "Okay, easy there." [Laughter] I am mostly patient, but I definitely have that cut off for sure. So, I always try to work on it and be like, "Okay, why am I feeling like this? Oh, I didn't leave enough time for whatever.

I'm not using my time smart. I'm not doing this. I'm not doing that." So, I try to think of it like, "Oh, how can I improve upon this and why am I feeling the impatience?" But I'm, for sure, way more impatient.

Well, yeah, and it is a practice. Like it isn't something that like I don't think you're either patient or impatient and you're born that way, and you're fixed, like a fixed, outcome in who you are. Like it is a philosophy on life and how we look at things.

Sorry, I thought you had more! [Laughter]

So, I tie it back to stoicism and the whole like releasing control of the things we don't have control over and not deciding that things are good or bad. But this is like my 30,000 foot view, I guess. I don't know.

So, like from a practical standpoint, how do you look at improving patience, or even recognizing patience in yourself? The presence or lack thereof.

I think just that self-awareness and just being like, "Okay, I'm feeling really angry right now. Why am I feeling like that?" Just tied to patience specifically, but also just any sort of emotion like that, like, "Why is this making me feel like this?" So, I think if you notice that, like you're like tapping your foot and looking at your watch and just be like, "Woah." Like if you can catch yourself in that, that's amazing cuz then you can just be like, "Okay.

What is happening right here? How can I solve this?" And just read some philosophy books about patience in life. And if you think about it, you have your entire life for everything.

Like why are it's we've talked about this where it's like hurry up and wait, where you're hurrying, constantly hurrying, you're hurrying through everything, which I 100% do, and then it's like, "Oh, okay. Well, why did I hurry through all of that when that could have been my day and I could have made it far more enjoyable?" So, it's expecting something more to come and it's kind of like a FOMO, almost, where it's like, "Well, I don't want to miss out on what else can come if I'm busy working on this or I'm stuck with this." But that could be the thing that could bring you joy, could bring you contentedness.

It's like focusing on specifically talking about like social media and like, "Well, I want a million subscribers. Where are they?" Focus on the journey of getting there. Focus on making really good stuff that can actually help people or entertain people, like we talked about last week or the week before, entertain or inform.

If you can do both, that is amazing. But focus on doing one or two or both of those things, you will get there. It'll just take a little bit of time, so just be patient with yourself.

Don't get discouraged and focus on your business if you need money because a million subscribers isn't going to get you there, so just keep that in mind.

Well, and also I think, practically speaking, it's so important to reflect on the small wins because you can be patient If you're being patient for one lone outcome and say, "Okay, in 24 months, I will make $100,000 in that year." Well, how about 30 days, 15 days later, when you get your first client, your first sale? That's a win.

That is what patience is about, I think, is measuring and recognizing your wins along the way. So, people could say that you're moving the finish line, say. But like there is no finish line.

If you have a finish line in what you're doing, I would actually say stop doing what you're doing and do something else because that finish line should never come over the horizon because if you want to get to a completion point, it isn't a sustainable thing that you'll enjoy doing as that completion point gets further and further away.

That is very funny when you're saying that. I was like, "Yeah, I don't have a finish line at all." Like I don't really I mean, I have benchmarks, obviously, that I'd I would prefer to hit, yeah, but I mean that's like, "Well, yeah, I'll get there when I get there." [Laughter] But that is also how we've sort of talked about a little bit yesterday, how that comes from comfort.

If you are uncomfortable and you want to get out of your situation and you want nothing more than to get the hell away from certain people and certain things, you're going to work your ass off. You really don't care, but you will be more impatient because you need to change your circumstance because you are not comfortable.

Like, that is sort of where I come from, is this discomfort where like, not to get too into it, but I don't even know where to go for it, but just essentially I wanted to work hard to get away from things and situations and stuff like that, and just make a better life for myself where I didn't have to be dependent upon anyone.

So, I was going to do whatever the fuck it took and like just literally make it work, whereas like you came more from a comfortable sort of background.

And can I, yeah, not like wealthy, but sort of the difference being like talking about small wins, the like I would say I was surrounded by negative, pessimistic, impatient people. That was just like the community, sort of the environment I grew up in, like friends at school, like just everything across the board. But the difference is people would say when the whole "millennials are a problem" thing, is like everyone's told they're the best.

They get tro- participation trophies, this and that. But that was what was different for me was my parents constantly told me I was the best, constantly reinforced positive behavior to have me push further to be better at everything. Like I wanted to be the best.

It wasn't to impress them. It was that the bar in my head was best. This is it.

Like I am going to be the best at anything I do. But I had those small wins along the way handed to me that I wasn't even looking for. So, like I had a lot of positive reinforcement on things that wasn't empty.

It they were valid reinforcement. But because of that, I think, that is how I'm wired now, is I'm looking for every little bit. That whole like, "Get 1% better every day," and that compounds immensely over a year, over a decade.

Like I just want to be a little better at everything each time I do it. Like this show, the this shot, I think it's fun. It's so weird and stupid, whatever.

Some of these shots we're going to do, we're going to do some weird ones.

We should try an upside down one. You're going to pass out. [Laughter]

I mean, the one that we tried just tinkering with the shot. We're going to do silly things, but it's like it's not what's better?

We should do that next week.

We might. Doing a weird shot for this podcast, is that better? It's fun, and that's a win for me.

If I'm like if I can get people to look at the next, thumbnail or like just like a flip and be like, "What the fuck is this?" [Laughter] Like, why are they shooting it like that? That is satisfying and a win for me.

Cuz it's fun, it's creative, and it's funny because I actually had a quote that was about patience and creativity. "If there is a rule to creativity that's less breakable than the others, it's that the need for patience is ever-presence." Ever-present, Jesus! [Laughter] I fucked that up! [Laughter] But patience is required for taking in new information and trying to create with that information.

It's part of the creative process. Like I got that from The Creative Act, which is a really great book, so you should read it.

Well, yeah, and to be great at anything you have to have the patience to get past sucking.

Like if you're–

It's hard.

Well, yeah, if you're we get satisfaction from things we're good at. If you only want to be good at something, and you're like, "I am going to be good at basketball," and then the first shot you miss, and then you're like, "Okay, let me go to something else." You're never going to grow, you're never going to get anywhere.

So, there has to be some degree of patience, but maybe it's like patience to make your first shot, but maybe it's patience to make five in a row. Like, that is funny, I didn't even mean to think this, but I would stand be outside in the driveway at my parents' house growing up shooting the same shot over and over and over again until I could get a certain number in a row.

I didn't play basketball. I never wanted to be on a team, but I wanted to be able to make shots. I don't know, that just popped in my head and it's funny cuz I don't think basket- basketball isn't my sport, it's football.

But, like,. Anyway.

That's a little tangent, but–

We got Michael Jordan over here!

No! [Laughter]

Michael Jeffrey Jordan, Jeffrey Michael Sarris, just saying.

Whoa, that's weird. Basketball champ! [Laughter]

No. No, but, yeah, anyway.

So, do you have a final thought on how to practice patience?

Like for me, it's the small wins. It's realizing the importance of having little markers.

Yeah, so it Yeah, like celebrating those, but then not letting that sort of be your final resting place, [Laughter] if you will, unless that's fine for you, which that is great. Like, do whatever makes you happy, but, yeah, don't forget to celebrate those because I 100% don't do that and I know that's something that you have tried to help me.

I'm like, "No, fuck it, that doesn't matter, I need to get to X." So, yeah. Okay, so I'm not patient, is what I'm learning. [Laughter]

No, no, no, but I think that's combined with action. Like the other the other part is you have to be doing more, more x- exploration of things you enjoy. So, it isn't like, "Let me do more of these things I hate to make more money." It's like, "No, let me Oh, look at that book.

That book's interesting. Let me read this book that has nothing to do with business, nothing to do with anything." But you're you're expanding your connections cuz action yields opportunity, yields experience, experience yields opportunity, opportunity necessitates more action. This is like I need to come up with a name for this cuz I say it all the time and I tweet it.

The Sarris Method.

I know, right?

[Laughter] The Sarris system, hello!

Ooh, Sarris Cycle.

Ooh, that's good.

There you go.

Sarris Cycle. What do you have, Sarris Cycle?

[Laughter] Okay, so we are basically at time.

Yes.

How do you want to close out your thoughts?

Don't do that tear, though. [Laughter] It's cute, though. No! [Laughter]

How do you want to close out your thoughts on patience?

I guess just along what you were saying, always be curious, always be creating, no matter what it is. Like creating isn't just putting That was like your outro for your show! [Laughter]

So–

Oh, yeah! I'm Amara Andrew, never stop creating. [Laughter] Look at that! But genuinely, like do not stop being curious, do not stop being creative, and if you notice those things in yourself when you are feeling impatient, feel it, make sense of it, try to rationalize what is this and why am I feeling this, and then you can move on and be a better person.

So, that's it.

Yeah, and I just wanted to This isn't a joke, this is an actual quote Ugh. From Teller from Penn & Teller.

Oh.

Yeah, because like it ties to this, and I always found this amazing. I prefer to read it so I say it exactly right, but one of the greatest magicians of all time, and the quote is, "Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect." There's jokes that Penn jokes, I keep saying jokes, there's so much in the comedians, [Laughter] comedians.

But there are magic tricks, illusions that Penn & Teller developed for decades before performing the first time.

Wow.

Because putting in that practice, putting in that time, having that patience gets you extraordinary results. Extraordinary results are extra ordinary, the ordinary results are what everyone else is doing. But if you're patient and dedicated and focused and learning as you go, you can get extraordinary results in anything you do.

I really wanted to go [Singing guitar riff] [Laughter] While behind you. It sounded like a speech, but it was very motivational.

Dude.

Good job.

[Singing guitar riff] My fellow Mavens, today, I– [Laughter] Okay, anyway. So, we should probably be wrapping up. If you have a question–

Oh, yeah, call in!

We have a voicemail, box. [Laughter]

All right, don't call. [Laughter]

So, the phone number is 530-628-3611. That's 530-MAVEN-11.

Ooh, or write us a letter. That would be fun.

You could write us a letter at our social media accounts @JeffSarris @AmaraAndrew most of the time.

Yeah, kind of. [Laughter]

But, yeah, that number, 530-628-3611, we would love to answer any and all questions about entrepreneurship, any silly question, whatever you have, videography if you're a realtor, if you're a realtor, [Laughter] if I'm slurring my words, I think this is about time to wrap. But, oh, so your recommendation this week, if we did have a recommendation.

You go first.

Well, I was just going to say you already sort of recommended something.

Yeah, the book?

Yeah.

Would that be your recommendation?

Do you think our dear listener [Laughter] should– Well, like we have no ex– We have no expectations of numbers, listeners, views, whatever. We're here to create, practice, get better, and help you get better.

Well, yeah, hopefully this is at least helpful to one fucking person. If you're out there, Greg, say [Laughter] hi. [Laughter] Greg, I keep picking that name, I don't know why. Yeah, The Creative Act is amazing.

At first, by Rick Rubin.

I don't know why you give it that accent. [Laughter]

I don't know. We I think you probably recommended it last week, now that I think about it.

Yeah, I did, but that's fine, I'll recommend it again. —

Yeah, it's really good. At first I wasn't too into it because it felt very flowery of writing. Like it felt too ephemeral and kind of nebulous with thoughts and things like that, so I was like, "Oh, god.

I feel like I'm back in grad school." but then as I was reading it, I was like, "Oh, no, like it's kind of you need to read it slowly. This isn't This isn't a skim to get knowledge or information."

Are you saying this is a book that you should read patiently?

Oh my god, I did! I didn't even mean to! [Laughter] Yes! And literally he actually has a whole chapter on patience, which was weird because I literally opened the book this morning and where I left off was the patience chapter, so fucking weird.

And we had this topic already planned.

Already planned, we already talked about it, yeah, yesterday. Which was really weird, and I sent it to him while he was still sleeping this morning. I was like, "!" [Laughter] yeah, definitely, The Creative Act, again, for week number two in a row.

Maybe even week three, I think I also recommended on my other podcast, [Laughter] so, good, I just love it.

And what's his name again?

Rick Rubin. It's very inspirational.

I don't know why you do– He does not pronounce his name that way, if you haven't seen.

Jeff Sarris. [Laughter]

Thank you.

Amara Andrew.

Wow. All right, so–

What's up?

To close out.

Oh, god!

Why does it take pirates so long to learn the alphabet?

Cuz they only know "R"?

Why does it take pirates so long to learn the alphabet? Because they could spend years at C.

Oh, god! See? Patience! [Laughter] Be a patient pirate!

All right, thanks for watching What is MAVEN? Watching, listening, wherever you are, and we will see you next time.

Yeah, and let us know in the comments below what you do to be patient. Tell us! Bye!