Forget "work smarter not harder" Do this


Jeff Sarris
Host

“Work smarter, not harder” is comforting advice—until you realize it’s also a complete lie. Your competitors are doing both: using AI to sprint through research, production, and decision-making while everyone else scrolls.

This week, we break down why tools like Grok and Claude can compress hours of work into mere seconds (if you know how to prompt well), why offloading your thinking is the fastest way to lose your edge, and how a single search can reveal what’s completely hidden from Google.

Finally, we tackle the quiet mistake draining most small businesses: treating platforms like separate worlds. In an interest-graph, algorithm-driven world where 75–85% of views come from non-followers, the smartest move is to cross-post everywhere, ignore vanity metrics, keep personal and business accounts separate, and let the audience, not your assumptions, decide what hits.

Chapters

  • (00:00) – Smarter And Harder
  • (01:16) – AI Output Trap
  • (03:27) – Daily AI Workflow
  • (05:41) – Research Story Grok
  • (09:37) – Skills Still Matter
  • (11:55) – Cross Post Everywhere
  • (15:17) – Vanity Metrics Myth
  • (16:00) – Hyperlocal Growth Example
  • (17:16) – Algorithms And Discovery
  • (20:15) – Train Your Algorithm
  • (20:55) – Personal vs Business Accounts
  • (22:32) – Personality With Relevance
  • (24:21) – Non Followers Drive Views
  • (25:09) – Hashtags For Discovery
  • (27:16) – Post Everywhere Strategy
  • (28:32) – Monetize Across Platforms
  • (31:30) – Teams Behind Big Creators
  • (34:07) – Small Business Content Efficiency
  • (37:00) – Final Posting Hacks Wrap

Transcript

00:00:00 Amara Andrew

"Work smarter, not harder" is only true if your competitors are dumb.

00:00:05 Jeff Sarris

Hey, Explorers! Welcome back to Useful Not Famous. This is the show where we gather and share things that, that what?

Give your business an unfair advantage. I'm Amara.

00:00:16 Amara Andrew

Andrew.

00:00:17 Jeff Sarris

And I'm Jeff.

00:00:18 Amara Andrew

Andrew. No!

00:00:23 Jeff Sarris

Sarris.

00:00:24 Amara Andrew

Thank you. And also with you.

00:00:26 Jeff Sarris

Please be seated.

00:00:28 Amara Andrew

So, work smarter, not harder. It is a trope. It is a thing that we've all heard so many times.

Now, it's only true that you work smarter, not harder, if your competition is dumb because your competition is working smarter and harder. But that's what—that's where we are in the world right now, is we can do and achieve so much more. And you think about like the Michael Jordan of whatever you do.

Like, Michael Jordan wasn't being more intelligent about how he was practicing to then work less and work less hard. He was intelligent about how he practiced to achieve so much more and worked so hard in an intelligent way.

00:01:17 Jeff Sarris

This just reminds me of whichever episode it was and we were talking about AI and how people are using it to 1/10th their x—why am I like tongue-tied?

00:01:28 Amara Andrew

We've talked about that in so many episodes. I think it's important, but go on.

00:01:31 Jeff Sarris

But we've, yeah, I guess we have talked about it in a lot of episodes. But basically a lot of people are using AI, like Claude, Grok, I guess ChatGPT, bleh! Sorry, but bleh!

To 1/10x their output instead of 10x-ing your output. Meaning that you could do so much more now because, especially with Claude, because of Cowork, code, like they keep releasing things basically every single day, which is so cool. But you can use that to basically just run your entire business now at this point.

But a lot of people are using it for—not to its fullest potential, and not working even harder and using that to do all the work and then just being like, "All right, I'm just going to hang out, or go to the coffee shop, or watch TV all day," or whatever.

00:02:18 Amara Andrew

Scroll on social media. Okay, but…

00:02:21 Jeff Sarris

Well, you know what I mean. Just, what is this, 1998? Go somewhere!

Oof.

00:02:27 Amara Andrew

Lol.

00:02:28 Jeff Sarris

But using, yeah, you can go to a coffee shop. But I'm just saying, using it to not do the things you actually should be doing then, because you can use AI to essentially be your personal assistant.

00:02:38 Amara Andrew

And that's all I wanted to say, is offloading thinking. People are offloading the thing that makes what they do unique.

00:02:46 Jeff Sarris

Right, and this is the time when you offload all the grunt work that maybe you don't like to do in your business, or that takes up so much time, when you need to be focusing on, "Okay, where am I going with my business? What are we actually like doing? Where should I be heading?" which maybe I'm not.

So it's a really great time for that. So, yeah, when we say 10x your output, meaning don't just give up, just be like, "Okay, now I don't have to do anything." Push yourself even a little bit harder, because now we all have access to this exact piece of tech. So, exactly, like your competition is using that to then 10x their output while you're just kind of hanging out.

00:03:27 Amara Andrew

How many times do you use AI every day? If you were considering it, not hours or minutes, but new chats, say?

00:03:37 Jeff Sarris

So, I build off of my existing chats a lot.

00:03:40 Amara Andrew

So, different conversations. It could be an existing chat, but like maybe, like if I'm working with Claude Code to build things, that'll be one chat for like all day. But thinking holistically, because we use Grok for research, like data, fact-based things most of the time.

00:04:00 Jeff Sarris

Okay, so I actually have a story for you from today. You have no idea what I'm going to say.

00:04:03 Amara Andrew

Aha. I did want to—I don't want to like leave this, though, 'cause I want to know how many times, how many different chats do you think you go through in a given day?

00:04:10 Jeff Sarris

So, this actually ties into that: a shit ton! If I had to measure in units, it would be one metric shit ton.

00:04:19 Amara Andrew

Think more, like earlier we saw something and you were like, "A butt ton?"

00:04:26 Jeff Sarris

I know! Yeah, that's the only problem if you do a call-and-response in your video, is like, "How many toys do you think are in this toy box? A billion!" More.

"A billion plus one?" More. "A thousand?" Not even close! So, this person was doing that in a video, and I was like, "A shit ton." And then he did more, and I was like, "What comes after a shit ton?

A butt ton?" And then, anyway, I had to fill in the blanks, so. Yeah, so I have so many chats going, and not even just, text, but also then image generation for different things. 'Cause now you can just make literally anything you want, which is extremely helpful with what we do with MAVEN, our video marketing agency.

00:05:10 Amara Andrew

And in a minute we'll explain what tools we're using for these. I don't want to gloss over that, but I want to hear your story.

00:05:15 Jeff Sarris

So, yeah, like I love using basically AI all day, but because also I've worked at how to use it. 'Cause at first when you start you're like, "Hi! What do you do?"

00:05:28 Amara Andrew

Or you're Googling something.

00:05:30 Jeff Sarris

It's like being at a cocktail party and you're just meeting someone and you're like, "What's your name?"

00:05:34 Amara Andrew

Well, and I think that and like Googling. Like I Google in a certain way, but that's not how you chat with something.

00:05:41 Jeff Sarris

So, that brings me to my story. So, I come from a research background. I…

00:05:46 Amara Andrew

Ananda!

00:05:48 Jeff Sarris

…come from a researchanda, where I worked at universities and colleges, and I was—part of my job was doing research for people. So, I've gotten really fucking good at it, at finding these little nuggets of what I need. And I was searching so stupid today, 'cause I haven't had to do that kind of like—this was academic research, so…

00:06:11 Amara Andrew

I feel like you're speaking like AI's thinking for you. "I was searching so stupid today!" It just sounded like…

00:06:17 Jeff Sarris

I'm actually half AI at this point. Oh, no. "Hello!

Great idea!" so I was searching the old-school way, which is now silly to say, but I was searching on Google because that's what I'm just used to doing, because I'm so—I'm just used to doing that and then seeing what is sort of out there, and then I can deduce what's true and what's not, because sometimes, especially looking up historical research, I have had hallucinations with certain AIs.

00:06:48 Amara Andrew

And that just means they're making up an answer.

00:06:51 Jeff Sarris

That's what I was just going to say. Oh, sorry. And that, yeah, is where they're—it's not a real response.

It's something completely fake and not even remotely true. So, I have had that happen, but it was only with ChatGPT, which is why I just do not use it. Please, for the love of God.

You'll get so much better results with platforms we are about to tell you.

00:07:09 Amara Andrew

And I just wanted to say, Googling something gives you 10 results. Not 10 answers—10 spots where you can do more research, and then you can go to the next page and get 10 more, 10 more, 10 more.

00:07:21 Jeff Sarris

So, I was looking for a very specific—this is for a video for our hyper-local platform. I was looking for research. I was looking for one, it was about an artist, George Melville Smith, and I was looking for one artwork that he exhibited at the same time as a very famous artist in one brochure in one museum almost 100 years ago.

And I was like, the odds of this existing, first off, are very slim. So, I was looking through Google and I was like not finding what I wanted, and then I was like, "Fuck it, I should just ask Grok." So, we use Grok a lot for research, and we'll talk more about it in a second. Found my answer in half a second!

I spent—I didn't spend that long, honestly, I spent maybe 30 minutes trying to find it, but then I wasn't getting what I wanted, and I was like, "Oh, duh! I should totally do this, because I do everything the hard way first, and then I figure out the easy way."

00:08:15 Amara Andrew

And I want to contrast it with Google. So, you had 10 results that you can then look into and see, "Is what I want there?" What Grok does, as you will see it say, it'll go, "Searching… 57 results." In a fraction of a second, it went through six—the equivalent of six pages of Google, and checked every page that—actually, it didn't just give a list of 57 things, like maybe it'll be here.

It also read 57 articles to find it for you.

00:08:47 Jeff Sarris

Yes. And you have to be very clear in your prompt with what you want, because that's how you find the best things, and that's how I got this result in like half a second. But I was just like, "I know that he exhibited with this person around this time period.

It's this, through this museum and this place. What can you tell me?" And then, like, yeah, I saw him—him! I saw it thinking, and then, yeah, it was just like, "Oh, this is exactly the exhibition catalog you're looking for." And sure enough, I click on the link, it's exactly what I was looking for.

And I was like, "My God, this used to—this would have taken me before, when I worked at a university, like, literally the entire day almost to try to find this one thing because it was hidden." It wasn't, scanned in. It was just on the Internet Archive. So, anyway, it was just like such a fascinating experiment that I literally just did like a couple hours ago.

00:09:37 Amara Andrew

Well, and it's important to think, too, that was someone's job.

00:09:41 Jeff Sarris

That was my job!

00:09:42 Amara Andrew

Yeah, just saying, as research. But now the researchers who will be most in demand are able to use these tools to then be more effective at being a researcher. So, like, not to ignore the—the skill set matters so much, because it's not just "find this thing for me" and then hope for results.

It's, "I'm doing research as I would, and my assistant is very fast at diving through everything."

00:10:09 Jeff Sarris

And sort of just saying what you hope the outcome to be is what I've found helpful.

00:10:15 Amara Andrew

Are you okay? You're starting to sneeze all of a sudden.

00:10:19 Jeff Sarris

Doing coke?

00:10:21 Amara Andrew

Bless you!

00:10:22 Jeff Sarris

Ladies and gentlemen, that was a Jeff Sarris sneeze.

00:10:26 Amara Andrew

Bless you!

00:10:27 Jeff Sarris

Thank you! But that was just—it was, it made me so happy, 'cause then also I'm really hoping that colleges and universities are using this. Like at—I worked in an archive.

I worked in many archives, and reference questions were both the thing that I loved the most, but also the bane of my existence because you hoped that you could find an answer for someone, but you're limited…

00:10:52 Amara Andrew

He's blowing his nose off camera, ladies and gentlemen.

00:10:57 Jeff Sarris

But you would hope that you could find somebody's like, an answer to their question, at least like a little crumb of something, and you know, a lot of times you would come up empty-handed because there's only so much time you can devote to it because that's just one part of your job, but then also it might not be digitized, it might not even exist anymore.

So, like, that makes me so happy, and I really hope institutions are using that to its full potential.

00:11:19 Amara Andrew

And you know they're not yet, unfortunately, but we say it for people. I hope people will, because institutions are irrelevant. Like, degrees now are completely irrelevant unless you're trying to be a doctor, unless you're trying to be something.

'Cause no one—everyone wants results. They don't want a degree, unless it's very, very antiquated today. So, it's, it's a time that we need to, accept, too, that we're in like output.

We're in 10x-ing who's going to be best at what they do.

00:11:54 Jeff Sarris

Be best.

00:11:56 Amara Andrew

… But this leads into the main thing we wanted to talk about today was about posting content, and how you can be smarter about posting content and work harder.

00:12:12 Jeff Sarris

Yeah.

00:12:13 Amara Andrew

Like, we're not talking about the word "harder" as much, but we get caught up in sort of the nitty—not nitty-gritty, the, nitty-gritty of things, where people are like, "Well, I don't post on TikTok because my videos are—they're Instagram videos. They're not TikTok videos. Or I don't post on LinkedIn because it's not really a business video, it's about like this recipe I made for my cooking platform."

00:12:38 Jeff Sarris

Which this boggles my mind when I hear this. Or, which there is a strategy to it, but when someone's like, "I want to make different content for every single platform." Good fucking luck, you're never going to do it! Do you know how insane that is?

Like, I understand the idea and the thought behind it, which is really cool. But no way! Like, not even us who do this as a living are like, "I should make content for every single platform." 'Cause also…

00:13:06 Amara Andrew

Unique content for every single platform.

00:13:08 Jeff Sarris

Yes. So, we're all about cross-posting, meaning taking one video, putting it on every single platform, because who are you to decide that this is a TikTok video or this is an Instagram video? Videos that I've made and posted—and I've heard this from other people, too, that we've told to cross-post and then they do, they're like, "Oh, I thought it was going to flop on this platform, but it ended up doing like even better than I could have expected on that platform." so, like, you don't—you don't know what's necessarily going to pop off to an extent.

You can do everything within your control, but some videos just don't do well, or some videos do exceptionally well, and sometimes it just doesn't really totally make sense.

00:13:53 Amara Andrew

'Cause it's an algorithm-based world now. It's interest graph, not social graph. So, the algorithm hit that video in some way that it served it to certain people, and those people liked it or didn't.

And the bigger—like the more important part of this is nobody uses every platform. That's something that we've talked about a lot. Your platform of choice is TikTok.

00:14:17 Jeff Sarris

-.

00:14:18 Amara Andrew

Mine of choice is YouTube Shorts. There's people who spend all day on Instagram or all day on Facebook. Very rarely is someone like, "I'm a Facebook person and this person." Like, we have the thing that gives us what we want most, and that's where we spend most of our time.

We'll go to other platforms, but really we're not going to spend the lion's share of our time on more than one, maybe two platforms. So then what about the person who spends all their time on LinkedIn?

00:14:49 Jeff Sarris

-.

00:14:50 Amara Andrew

You're just never going to reach them, ever. And that's fine if you don't want to. But if you're making content and doing things to try to make money and reach more people and grow the influence that you have, not as an influencer, not famous, but as a useful influence, why would you not post somewhere, even if it gets 23 views?

What if those 23 views were actually 23 people who are very interested in what you're doing?

00:15:15 Jeff Sarris

Exactly, 'cause I think a lot of people, too, get like hung up on the vanity metrics where it's like, "Well, this only got like a 100 views or 200 here." Well, you don't know who those 200 people are. Like…

00:15:25 Amara Andrew

Or 1,000, 10,000. Like, the scale never ends. People are like, "This only got 10,000 views, I'm going to take it down."

00:15:32 Jeff Sarris

Which is insane, 'cause it's like 10,000—imagine 10,000 people! That's like basically a full arena almost, like a smaller arena, but that's an entire arena of people. Like, that is always crazy to me.

But…

00:15:46 Amara Andrew

100 views is 100 people. When have you spoken in front of 100 people?

00:15:50 Jeff Sarris

Exactly.

00:15:51 Amara Andrew

Like, that is crazy to think about.

00:15:53 Jeff Sarris

And if you've targeted your video appropriately with certain things, like that should be 100 people. So we work with a lot of like small businesses and realtors, so you're going for a very hyper-local audience. That should theoretically be a hyper-local audience of 100 people.

Like when I started my hyper-local platform, very minimal views. Like, it wasn't—if I was stuck in like looking at that data, it was mostly just something I wanted to start, 'cause I was like, "Why not? This will be fun."

00:16:25 Amara Andrew

And we've done it countless times for other people.

00:16:27 Jeff Sarris

Yes, but then it was like, "Oh, well, we should do it here." but, yeah, if I got stuck in that, and only posting to one platform, because I personally would have only posted to TikTok, now it's grown like tremendously, like far more than I guess I would have ever—I don't know, I don't have expectations for anything. But it just grew so much, and I would not have chosen Instagram as my prime platform, but that's the one where my hyper-local content, quote-unquote, is doing the best, has the biggest following, whatever, all the vanity metrics.

So, it's really funny like, when people don't want to post everywhere, how do you know that you're not going to be the audience for TikTok? Like, your videos could completely crush, or YouTube Shorts. That is such an unsung hero.

What?

00:17:15 Amara Andrew

What's funny is last night I saw one of your videos on my YouTube Shorts feed.

00:17:20 Jeff Sarris

Really?

00:17:21 Amara Andrew

Yeah, 'cause like we don't follow…

00:17:22 Jeff Sarris

My personal or…

00:17:23 Amara Andrew

No, hyper-local. We don't follow the hyper-local channel, and we don't engage with hyper-local stuff.

00:17:30 Jeff Sarris

So, then it's our proximity.

00:17:32 Amara Andrew

I don't even think it's that. I think it's whatever else I looked at happened to be nearby. So, then it knew, "Oh, you're in this area," because, like, we've been doing lots of, growth on our platform in terms of, the actual website itself is so robust now.

We have an entire business directory, an entire job board, an entire events calendar, all filled out. Like, this is what we've done for the past seven days, and…

00:17:58 Jeff Sarris

And we've been having people submit things already as well, and we just announced it.

00:18:01 Amara Andrew

I mean, we didn't—you could say we didn't even announce it, though. It was an aside at the end of a random video, just, "Oh, by the way, we have a job board," without a link, without how to get there.

00:18:13 Jeff Sarris

Pisses me off. That's…

00:18:14 Amara Andrew

Oh, yeah, that's…

00:18:16 Jeff Sarris

I'm just focused on the video.

00:18:17 Amara Andrew

We'll talk about this advertising stuff. "His what?"

00:18:22 Jeff Sarris

00:18:22 Amara Andrew

But we've—that in one week has gone from being a good website to a phenomenally useful website.

00:18:31 Jeff Sarris

It's a resource now, not just a website, yeah.

00:18:34 Amara Andrew

And useful, yeah. And that's the whole thing, and it's changed so much in one week. But, where was I going with that?

Where—how did I get there? It was…

00:18:44 Jeff Sarris

I was saying like, post everywhere. Instagram wasn't my first choice.

00:18:47 Amara Andrew

Yeah. Oh, so I found you. It served me your video because in building out our business directory, I have searched for local things here.

00:19:00 Jeff Sarris

That's so funny. Do you know which one?

00:19:03 Amara Andrew

I don't—I don't remember, but if I think about it, I would. But I've never searched for local things because I'm not looking for local things regularly, but I did enough searches this week, a small handful, that now YouTube is like, "Oh, you're in this area, you might like this video."

00:19:20 Jeff Sarris

That's interesting.

00:19:21 Amara Andrew

'Cause like we've had proximity forever, you know, and I've never had your video—I've never had these hyper-local videos show up.

00:19:28 Jeff Sarris

I was just wondering if it was like, when we went downtown or something, I don't know. Anyway, I'm just very curious which video. Was it a green screen or was it out and about?

00:19:38 Amara Andrew

No, it was out and about. But this is for later! It's irrelevant to people.

But that it served it to me, because now the Google algorithm, the—the idea of who I am is slightly different. It's not like just Chicago, now it is like, "Oh, no, you're actually closer to here. You'll—you'll want to see this."

00:19:58 Jeff Sarris

That's terrifying and interesting at the very same time.

00:20:00 Amara Andrew

But it's all it is. That's the algorithms. And like if you use your channel, if you use your platform, whatever it is, it's, say it's TikTok and all you do is you look at sports content, and all you post is cooking content, the algorithm is like, "This is a sports profile."

00:20:18 Jeff Sarris

Yes.

00:20:18 Amara Andrew

You're not going to get anywhere. Like if you want your cooking content to be served to people interested in cooking content, you better be using your profile solely for cooking content, searching for it, looking at it, engaging with it, because it's an algo—we're training the algorithm, and then it says, "Oh, you live here, I'm going to give you this." Like, it's very—it's so stupidly obvious, but also we don't think about it because we're not thinking about it as a sentient thing.

But the algorithm is trying to give you what it thinks you want, so whatever you're telling it is what it's going to—how ever you're engaging with it, it's going to try to give you more.

00:20:55 Jeff Sarris

So, this is something that we've started talking about with people, is have a separate personal account and a business account. Or treat your—if you want to have one, 'cause normally we were just like, "Well, no, just have one account." But that comes from us who doesn't really use social media as much….

00:21:14 Amara Andrew

Like, not as like—we use it for fun personally, but we don't use it for business personally.

00:21:19 Jeff Sarris

Yeah, we use it very differently. But if you have a business like that you want to have social media for, have a separate personal account. Do not mix the two, because what happens is exactly what you just said, where it's skewing your profile and what I've also seen people doing is posting personal things that had nothing to do with anything.

It was, just very random. Like it wasn't even like an insight into their life. It was just, like, it had no value.

Like, let's say you have a…

00:21:52 Amara Andrew

Let's say a sports platform, and you talk all about sports and your favorite sports and this and that, and then one video is just like, " oh, I had so much fun at Jane's birthday party today."

00:22:04 Jeff Sarris

Exactly.

00:22:05 Amara Andrew

Like, "Huh? Who the hell's Jane? What—like where is, football?

Like what are you talking about?"

00:22:12 Jeff Sarris

Or like, "Or like I went to this cooking conference," and it's like, I don't care. Like, I'm here to learn about sports or sports memorabilia or whatever the hell your platform is. I don't need to know all this other stuff.

Like, I could genuinely give a shift less. So, it's mixing the two, which I think really hurts a platform, because…

00:22:31 Amara Andrew

And now we like having personality.

00:22:33 Jeff Sarris

100%.

00:22:34 Amara Andrew

There's a—there is a line here, though.

00:22:35 Jeff Sarris

No, you need personality. If you don't…

00:22:36 Amara Andrew

Yeah, we want people to—to sort of get to know you more through things.

00:22:39 Jeff Sarris

Yeah, so like if you were at a cooking conference and then you saw that they had a pair of cleats in the hallway or something, like I don't know, just like if it's even tangentially related, that's fine. But if it's something so weird, out of the blue, doesn't make sense…

00:22:53 Amara Andrew

If it was just like, "Okay, guys, I'm at—I'm at a cooking conference. I do cooking stuff, but you'll never guess who's speaking."

00:23:02 Jeff Sarris

Yeah.

00:23:03 Amara Andrew

And then you're like, "Wait, who's speaking at the cooking conference? Is it…"

00:23:06 Jeff Sarris

Jim Grover.

00:23:07 Amara Andrew

Yeah, or like…

00:23:08 Jeff Sarris

Joe Montana!

00:23:09 Amara Andrew

…it's just like Joe Montana. Joe Montana has a cookware line now. Who knew?

00:23:13 Jeff Sarris

Yeah! Like that would make sense.

00:23:15 Amara Andrew

Like, so that's interesting and it's a hook. It's a cliffhanger.

00:23:17 Jeff Sarris

You actually share a really great story.

00:23:19 Amara Andrew

But like it's a—it's a thing and it gets you somewhere and it's like, "Oh, wow!" And then you're like, "Oh, I didn't know that they did—that they were a professional chef."

00:23:28 Jeff Sarris

Exactly.

00:23:28 Amara Andrew

And then you get to know something, but you still had the payoff that matters. No one cares that you went to your friend's birthday party. Like I feel like that's the best example, because like we've all sort of done this where you—you have a group photo with a bunch of people that no one knows, and you're like following…

00:23:42 Jeff Sarris

Or if you're like a, oh, shit, I had a good one, I totally forgot what it was. But yeah, anyway, just making sure that it's actually related to what you do.

00:23:53 Amara Andrew

Yeah, useful, relevant. Like, anyone who would care. Like when it's a photo—like I know old-school like Facebook, we post a photo with our eight friends that we went out to dinner with and it's like, "Hey, look!" and it's just for us, for eight people.

00:24:04 Jeff Sarris

But if you have a small business or you're a realtor or whatever, why would anybody care?

00:24:09 Amara Andrew

And we're not in the interest—we're not in the social graph anymore, the world, so the algorithms are pure interest, so your friends aren't—the friends who would know these eight people aren't seeing it anyway, it's strangers. Like, we've looked at the analytics lately, and consistently across every platform that we work with, approximately on the—on the rare low end, it's 65%, but 75 to 85% of all views are non-followers.

00:24:39 Jeff Sarris

Which is fascinating, and that's only on Instagram.

00:24:41 Amara Andrew

Just to lean—to lean on that again, 75 to 85%… Like, I've looked on multiple, not just Instagram.

00:24:48 Jeff Sarris

Oh, okay. I've only looked on Instagram.

00:24:50 Amara Andrew

Okay, so like 75 to 85% of the views and engagement and everything, all non-followers, which also shows like, who follow you, it does not matter. You could have eight people follow you, and then you reach so many more because what matters is what you're saying, not who you're saying it to.

00:25:08 Jeff Sarris

See, and then it matters so much what you actually say in your video for like keywords and things to pop up in search for whatever it is, and then same with your description and hashtags. I will die by hashtags. I know nobody uses them anymore, but I really think they do help with discoverability if you're using them properly.

00:25:26 Amara Andrew

Well, because also, think about it: cooking platform, gluten-free cooking. There are—it's hard to find the gluten-free cooking community. You can search for like "Gluten Free Sally," you know what I mean?

Like, what is it going to be?

00:25:43 Jeff Sarris

How did you know my stage name?

00:25:46 Amara Andrew

But if you search "gluten-free" and it's like, explore this hashtag, the only gluten-free things you're going to look at are the things that are hashtagged in there. Like, that is—it's a mechanism for discovery, even if it's not used a lot. It's sort of the only way to find anything when you don't know who you're looking for.

00:26:05 Jeff Sarris

Exactly. Yeah, so keep using hashtags! I feel like I need to make a shirt, like, I don't know, how people are outraged about the Oxford comma, I'm outraged about hashtags.

00:26:16 Amara Andrew

Who is outraged about the comma that should be there?

00:26:21 Jeff Sarris

Vampire Weekend. Actually, no, they're not outraged, they're anti. "Who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma?" It's a good song, not when I sing it, but it's a good song.

00:26:37 Amara Andrew

Ladies and gentlemen, that was singing!

00:26:39 Jeff Sarris

Are you sure?

00:26:41 Amara Andrew

You were just like…

00:26:44 Jeff Sarris

You know what I was wondering? No sound came out! I didn't want to give away my many talents.

00:26:53 Amara Andrew

Oh, okay, good.

00:26:54 Jeff Sarris

I didn't want to, you know, dazzle the listener with how great I can actually sing. So, just if you want to hear me sing, comment below: sing, sing. Sing, sing, girl, sing!

Anyway, I forgot what I was just going to say.

00:27:11 Amara Andrew

You interrupted yourself.

00:27:15 Jeff Sarris

Yeah, so basically posting everywhere is so important, we find it very important.

00:27:19 Amara Andrew

Yes, it is. And you're—if you just think about, like…

00:27:24 Jeff Sarris

You're already doing the work of making a video.

00:27:26 Amara Andrew

Exactly. I want to reach as many people of the right people, again, that's very important, but I want to reach as many of the right people as I can, and say you're sending out flyers. Like, think just paper, old-school, I'm sending out a postcard all over town, but I'm just going to send it to two blocks.

Hopefully everyone figures out that I'm doing this. No! Like, two blocks out of what, 20,000?

So 18, or 18,000… Good god! Carry the one.

19,998 blocks.

00:28:02 Jeff Sarris

Yeah.

00:28:02 Amara Andrew

Then you're not even in the—where they are. You're not doing anything where they are. They are on LinkedIn, as much as you—they are on BlipBlurp, the platform you don't even know exists.

00:28:15 Jeff Sarris

Are you on BlipBlurp?

00:28:16 Amara Andrew

BlipBlurp is—is everything. BlipBlurp!

00:28:18 Jeff Sarris

Oh, we should connect on BlipBlurp. Well, and another thing that I was just thinking about when you said it, which is a silly reason, but you never know what could happen.

00:28:27 Amara Andrew

I like silly reasons.

00:28:28 Jeff Sarris

Ooh, raisins. You can monetize multiple platforms if you get to that stage. Like, that shouldn't only—that shouldn't be your objective, but if you happen to build enough of a following everywhere, you can have multiple platforms going at the same time.

00:28:46 Amara Andrew

That reminds me, we talked about the foodie girl last week who had like 14 million followers on TikTok, had reached 350 million people in the last six months, whatever it was. The numbers were astronomical.

00:28:59 Jeff Sarris

Oh, yeah.

00:28:59 Amara Andrew

And I hadn't read the article yet, you had told me about it. I read it, and sort of the footnote in it is she had 14 or 40 million followers on TikTok, could never make any money, so had to quit, and she had 900 on YouTube because she never tried.

00:29:15 Jeff Sarris

See, it's…

00:29:16 Amara Andrew

She put a little bit there, and didn't have a meteoric rise, and then gave up. Where if you're trying to build something and build something worth value, it—if you're doing something of value, do it everywhere. Like, just think if she would have had, I don't know, 2,000 people on YouTube who loved what she did and supported it in the way that they can through YouTube, or AdSense, she had 4,000 subscribers, AdSense kicks in, suddenly she's getting all these views and getting paid by YouTube.

TikTok effectively doesn't pay you anything, like, compared to YouTube. Suddenly, she could have had enough to pay her rent. Like, she was doing this full-time for however many months, built a huge following, and couldn't afford rent.

00:30:03 Jeff Sarris

-.

00:30:04 Amara Andrew

That's gutting.

00:30:05 Jeff Sarris

It's cuckoo.

00:30:06 Amara Andrew

Yeah, but it's also because that vanity, it's like, "Well, it doesn't really work there, so I'm not going to do it." It's like, "No, it works everywhere. Just stop putting your bar, your expectations, at a certain part, at a certain point."

00:30:20 Jeff Sarris

And like, there is a route where if you wanted to do different content on every platform, there's a TikToker that I follow that I really love. She posts her like, intimate—not intimate, but like her videos on TikTok, then she uses…

00:30:35 Amara Andrew

An intimate OnlyFans.

00:30:37 Jeff Sarris

Yes, and then I follow her on OnlyFans. No. But she posts her videos on TikTok, and then on Instagram she has her photos, and then YouTube she does her vlogs.

That is so much work! But that's what she does because she's an influencer. So, that works for her.

That works for what she's trying to do, and now she's building a couple different companies at the same time, which is really fun to see, but it's very different types of content that she's making to distribute people and push them to all the different platforms. Now, I will say I wish she would post her videos to Instagram, because I think she's missing a huge, like—people on Instagram probably haven't even heard of this person, but on TikTok she's like everywhere.

But she's really I think missing a huge demographic by not posting everywhere, I think.

00:31:30 Amara Andrew

But what I want to throw in here is this podcast that you're listening to right now is the two of us. We have two cameras, we have one light…

00:31:40 Jeff Sarris

And one ghost.

00:31:41 Amara Andrew

And that's it! We shoot it, we post it. That's it.

This person has an entire team running all of the video and all of the social media and all the production and all the scheduling and all the planning and everything. And now when we think, "What does a team look like?" So, for MAVEN, we do hyper-local video content all over the country for small businesses. There's two of us, but we've built the system so we can—you could be a solo business owner, and we can be effectively your marketing department, because we've built the systems to do that.

So that still is—this person has us behind them, behind the scenes you never see us. But when we're talking at certain scales, and I want to hear this number, but I just wanted to say podcast, this is the two of us, we just put this out, whatever. Diary of a CEO, Steven Bartlett.

It is a phenomenal podcast. One episode a week, maybe two, maybe sometimes three, but I don't think he does three a week. It is so good, so well done.

Not that dissimilar from what we're doing here, just like arguably just like podcasts, it's structured, it's—it's its thing, but it's an interview. He—it has grown so much that he just crossed 100 employees working on the podcast.

00:33:08 Jeff Sarris

Yeah. Just the podcast.

00:33:10 Amara Andrew

Just the podcast! Like, the social media that goes out for it, the clips, the editing, the scheduling, 100 people! And this is for one man who runs a successful podcast where he talks to one person two, maybe three times a week.

Like, we all think, "This is a conversation, it's easy. I'll just do it." And then, you know, "I'll just post—I'll have five clips a day from the podcast, that's the only way people can find it, da, I'll actually do this, I'll do I'll do…" No! Like, you won't.

Like, you won't! Trust us, it's exhausting! And like everyone you look at who seems to be so prolific and so successful as like a solo person, when you actually look into them, they probably have—they at least have a small team, like what we do for people.

But many times they have, what I would say, a bloated team of way too many people. But it's what it takes to build the thing that they've built.

00:34:04 Jeff Sarris

Exactly. But that's such a different business that they're building. So, like, most of the people, we're primarily speaking—I've said it multiple times now, but to small business owners and realtors specifically, 'cause that's sort of our unintentional niche, that, well, intentional, but unintentional.

But that is—you're not an influencer. You're not, hopefully not trying to be an influencer, otherwise this doesn't really make sense. So, like, you need to sort of figure out what is the most—which is what we do for our top bananas and for my hyper-local content.

00:34:37 Amara Andrew

MAVEN.com/topbananas.

00:34:39 Jeff Sarris

Yeah, we highly, highly optimize the content so that it's the most effective it can be, 'cause otherwise, A, what's the point? And then two… What?

00:34:53 Amara Andrew

Do you have a two?

00:34:54 Jeff Sarris

Stupid, I laugh at my own jokes. No, I do, but I was busy laughing at my own joke and I was like, "God, people that laugh at their own jokes are stupid." And I was like, "I laugh at a lot of my own jokes." That's all that went on right there in that little gap. I totally forgot what I was going to say now.

Here we are, and I'm a horse. But anyway, just post everywhere, post your one video, post it everywhere, because you're like literally you're doing the same exact amount of work. I remember hearing people say before, too, that this was for home tours specifically.

00:35:26 Amara Andrew

Real estate home tours.

00:35:27 Jeff Sarris

Yes, they were going to go in and record multiple different tours for each different platform, and then they never posted to social media ever again. Or they tried it once, and then they realized, "Wow, that's probably not the best use of my time, when I should be working on literally anything else in the business." Like, this is one tiny part of—it should be one tiny part of your business.

00:35:56 Amara Andrew

So, marketing is a very, very vital, important part. Yes. But when you're the only person doing it…

00:36:01 Jeff Sarris

But when you're the only person doing it.

00:36:02 Amara Andrew

I just wanted to real quick say like, if you're—if that's you and you have a solo or two-person business, someone needs to run the business. Exactly. You're not in the business of marketing, because if you're marketing, you're not working—you're not working the business like it needs to be worked.

Exactly. So, you need to do both or have someone do the marketing. And marketing is vital.

Like, it is the be-all and end-all. Like, you can have the best product, best business, if no one knows you exist, good luck. Exactly.

Not even good luck. Unfortunately, you are already on the downswing.

00:36:37 Jeff Sarris

Yes. So, 100% do marketing, and this isn't to scare you from not doing anything. Like, this is purely just to say, if you're already dedicating the resources for this one freaking video, whether it's your time, your money, whatever, put it every single place.

Like, you literally have no idea where your next customer or client is going to come from. So, just please do that. That's the—that's all I have.

00:37:01 Amara Andrew

Well, and if you are set on having different things on every platform, here's the one little—the little, hack: post all of the things on all of the platforms! Like, you would have five things going out every day if you made something for every single platform uniquely every day. Yeah.

And then every platform has five things. Like, why not? Like, even…

00:37:21 Jeff Sarris

Every platform now, except for YouTube—like they support video and image.

00:37:26 Amara Andrew

YouTube—YouTube has posts, too. We just never use them.

00:37:28 Jeff Sarris

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

00:37:29 Amara Andrew

Yeah, everyone has everything. It's all the same.

00:37:31 Jeff Sarris

So then, you silly gooses, what are you doing?

00:37:33 Amara Andrew

But you know, like if it's just like, "Oh, you know, but I really—I want to use Instagram for this," it's like, fine. And post the other stuff. Yeah.

It's easy. Like, it is easier to just post it there also than to worry about, "Should this be there at all?"

00:37:48 Jeff Sarris

Sorry, I yawned.

00:37:50 Amara Andrew

With that, I think we're going to bed. No, I didn't eat too much today. I need to eat more.

It's almost din-din's time. -.

00:37:58 Jeff Sarris

I'm excited.

00:38:00 Amara Andrew

I think with that we should wrap, and we will see you next week.

00:38:06 Jeff Sarris

One of these times I'm actually going to have a rap ready for you, and I'm going to forget, probably, the entire time.

00:38:12 Amara Andrew

I mean, I have raps recorded of you, so I'll just have to play those on here. Okay, bye!