Transcript
Defining Desire and Personal Unhappiness
00:00:00 Jeff Sarris
Desire is a contract you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want. Why do you stare at me? It just makes me laugh.
I was like why are you giggling? Hey, Explorers, welcome back to Useful Whenever Famous. This is a show where we explore topics that we find interesting and share them with you and strive to be the most useful people that you know or maybe don't know.
Who are we?
That's the question for today.
I'm Jeff Sarris. This is Useful Whenever Famous.
You don't have a last name. Nope. I don't need a last name.
Don't tell people my real last name.
That's not your real last name. Your real last name is Andrew.
I like to be hidden in the shadows.
Nobody knows my real last name.
I mean, is your real last name– this is a this is a way to start, but desire is a contract you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want.
I feel like so many people like ev– I feel like all of us struggle with that to some extent, where it's like, "Well, I want this, but I can't have it, so I'm just going to be really upset. Like, I want a bigger house, I want a better car, I want the whatever hunka-lunk down the street. Like, I want all these…" I don't I'm saying.
Seriously, I said.
I'm not I don't want any of these things.
I meant it like a hunky hunk down the street. I'm just saying these are wants that people have. I don't want any of these things.
I have all the things that I need. But, like, there are certain things where I'm like, "Oh, that would be nice," or "Oh, that would be cool." And we all have that. But it is a fascinating idea, because it is like do you choose to be unhappy because of this, and then why?
Like, what is leading to that unhappiness? Is it the feeling of lack of fulfillment? Like, how do you get to that point?
Well, and what is a desire?
Like, is a desire only filling only in an existence to fill a void?
Yeah, desire is an interesting one, cuz then it's like, okay, well, I desire to be happy. How do I assume that I'm going to get there to happiness by having all of these material goods? But, really, it's just having So, I guess, what would you say Cuz, to me, I tie desire to happiness and unhappiness.
Like Which, I know, is a whole 'nother So, what to you What would you say is happiness? Like, is it a feeling? Is it a thought?
Is it an emotion? It is very difficult to unpack. And is happiness something that you can actually experience, or is it a I don't know.
I'm getting in the weeds of my question.
Analyzing the Three Types of Fun
Is it like the three types of fun? We've talked about the three types of fun being mostly two of them, but the third, sort of. So, you can have fun looking forward to something.
You enjoy planning. You enjoy like, "This is going to happen in…" Yeah. That's you.
For anyone not watching. But, like, enjoying the anticipation, that's fun. And then there's reflecting back on it, another type of fun.
So, I enjoy talking about, reminiscing, thinking about, looking at the photos of what we did.
Like what did I literally just say to you on New Year's Eve?
Oh, Happy New Year, by the way.
Well, we didn't have plans scheduled to go out, and I was just like, "Well, maybe we'll just like hang in and just like keep it chill, whatever, cuz we do a lot. We work a lot." My brain isn't like working right now. I'm not making words make sense.
So, sorry. And then Jeff was just like, "Oh, well, we could go out. Like where would you want to go?" And then analysis paralysis, everything's booked, all the reservations, blah, blah, blah.
And I was just like, "Well, let's just stay in." Then he's like, "Well, no, we should go out because you would like that." And I said to him, "Well, no, because part of the excitement for me is having something to look forward to during the day." So, that's part of the fun for me, I realized, when he was like, "Oh, well, we can make a decision to go out right now." That's not as much fun to me as like the planning of it and like, "Oh, we get to go here and we get to do this." Like it's a It's a very weird phenomenon I realized on New Year's Eve, where I was like, "Oh, no, I actually don't want to go out.
I just like the anticipation of what's coming."
And we knew this, cuz we've talked about this, like, years ago, I think, on the show, even, the three types of fun.
Yeah, on different episode. A different iteration of our podcast.
But, yeah, the three types of fun being looking forward to, looking back upon, but then our question is, is there even an immediate fun? Because can I be having fun in the instant that it happened? Because what I just said is the past already.
So, I can say, "This conversation was is fun," or "has been fun," but is it currently fun or is it how I think about it being fun? And I'm bringing this up only because you said happiness.
I'm having fun with you right now.
Well, happiness is very weird because it's fleeting. Like, it isn't I would argue it isn't even real.
Well, is it related to the three types of fun?
I don't know. Cuz, like, I love Disneyland, but when I go, I stress myself out because I want to do all the things. Shut up with your face.
But looking back, it is fun, but in the moment, maybe not as much.
Well, yeah. So, just for anyone, to state a quick rerun, my sweetie here has a Disney–
–a Disney to-do list that No, you don't say to-do list, but you say we have too many things to accomplish, we can't waste any time.
I don't say accomplish. Those are my mother's words. I say, "Things I'd like to do." I have a very different–
Here, hold on a second. Okay, so–
Hey, what are you guys saying?
–she did say accomplish when we were there, at least once or twice, but we'll we'll let it slide this time.
What are you saying over there? What? What?
I didn't say anything.
No, because you did say accomplish, and like it's fine.
But it's because it's like it's the So, that specifically is the FOMO. It's the, "This is my only shot that I'll ever have to be here. I need to do everything 18 times."
Yeah. What if I died in a churro-related incident? You have no idea.
But that is the thing, so a little different. But happiness–
Questioning the Existence of True Happiness
So, like, can you actually I the more we're learning and talking about happiness and like dissecting it as a society and just us, I feel like happiness doesn't actually exist. It's the packaging of the feeling of contentness and/or joy. Cuz I feel like those are as close to happiness as you can get.
Like Christmas, in the moment, again, very stressful, but afterwards, I'm like, "I'm really glad we did that. I feel happy that we did that." That's a contentedness, I would say. I'm leading the campaign that happiness doesn't even exist.
Cuz like we're we're people would say that we're very happy people because we're always, for the most part, like upbeat and smiley, maybe psychotically so. But I don't feel happy all the time. Like, it's maybe we're just joyful and contented content, contented, contented content with what we have.
Did you put CBD in my water? So, we have–
I haven't had any substances like that in over a year.
That's or almost a year. A year this month.
Oh, it wasn't the start of the year?
No, it was January 29th. Ooh! I just punched myself in the boob.
But happiness real quick. There might not be happiness, but there is definitely unhappiness.
But then is that just all these other emotions?
So, I think we can be unhappy. We're discontent, we're joyless, we are unhappy. I think that is a very definable thing.
It could be a depression, it could be a clinical depress– There's all these sort of things, but I think they all tie together as unhappiness.
So, then happy and unhappy are like the blanket terms for different emotions, then.
But then I only I was only going to say, like, unhappy, I feel like unhappy definitely exists, but I don't know if happy exists, or if it's just the counterpoint to unhappy.
All right, pessimist. Is this half full or half em- half empty? Jesus.
But being like content, being Cuz like I feel content, and what, in the sort of, anyone would say–
You're probably one of the most content people I've ever met.
Yeah, and like I like I'm happy, but also I know the like the term happy describes a state. So, happiness, I don't feel like is a thing I can I can't be happy.
Is that next to Kentucky? What?
Happy is a state. Right, right, right. So, Puerto Rico?
I don't know what this voice is. Okay, delete this part of the episode.
Okay, turn the volume up on that. Perfect. Okay, so–
So, yeah, happiness is a state. Maybe that's the problem, because But then you're trying to bring yourself to happy, but I guess meditation and philosophy isn't trying to get you to be happy, it's getting you to be content.
Maybe that's what we should all be striving for, is contentedness over everything.
Which I think that I think that's definitely true.
Objective Desires Versus Unimagined Futures
Okay, bringing it back. Bringing it back to the quote of the day. Desire Nay!
You're like, "I don't remember it." I was hoping you were pulling it up as I was rambling.
"Desire is a contract you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want."
Wait, read it one more time.
"Desire is a contract you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want." I am desiring this thing, and until I get it, I won't be content. I won't be complete. But getting the thing never makes us happy.
Side tangent. No, not side tangent, but, like, related.
Black cousins in the state of happy! Oh, gross! My hand just made the most egregious sound.
–I got the quote. Would you say that it's bad to have desires?
Cuz aren't desires objectives?
So, I think that they're related, but I don't know if they're the same.
But I think, like, definitely desires can be a major problem. Because when it's like, "I live my life desiring everything else," that is making me unhappy because I am not accepting or appreciating anything I have.
Yeah, cuz so then you're not even living in the moment. You're living in an imagined future, essentially, cuz you'll never–
I'm living for retirement. Like, sort of the cliche of like when I had my one desk job 100 years ago,
Like that was sort of all you had to look forward to before I realized I could do something else, was just, "Well, I'm just going to be at this desk every day for decades. Okay." Like it was very like resigned to that fact. So, it was a desire, I wouldn't say it was a desire for retirement, but I can see how you hit a certain age where you're desiring retirement.
You're looking forward to it and not living because you're like, "Well, that's when I'll get to do it."
But then at your desk job, did you have a desire to leave and try something else and do other things?
It depends on all of those definitions. I cuz before I understood, yeah, exit the building and never come back. But, you know, but that was the thing.
It wasn't I never thought about quitting. I thought about, "If I could only–" No, remember, this is the early 2000s.
So, "If I could I was a child. If I could only make the next million dollar idea, like Facebook," I know that sounds crazy, cuz it's not a million dollar company. But, at the time, it was a million dollar idea.
Because this is early.
That was me drinking water, if you just heard that.
Back to my story. It was a million dollar idea in the early 2000s. It wasn't everywhere.
Like my thought was if I could come up with that, then I could actually live my life and not just be stuck in this world. So, I didn't think about quitting, because I would have to get another job. But then I spent all my time learning and pursuing all these other things that eventually became what I do.
So, you had a desire, but then you also took action for it. And then you were miserable at your job, but you didn't choose You didn't choose that misery.
Well, I didn't choose to leave. They fired me, which was perfect.
That was the perfect thing that could have happened.
Like, were you looking at them?
Because I want you to know that it's true. But, like, it was perfect, perfect. It couldn't have been better.
Should I go get that Betty Boop in the office?
But, like, the I might have said it on here before, but the thing that I always remember is when the person told me they were letting me go, I, apparently, had such a look of joy on my face that it was startling to them.
No, it was joy. It was it was the joy of being like, "I'm free." I had no prospect of making money. I didn't even I had no idea what I was going to do, but I knew I was free.
And, like, she I forget what she said now. But it was something along the lines of "I've never had anyone like respond this way to this." And I was just like, "No, it's all good." And like I just remember going home and taking off my fancy, old-navy khaki pants for the last time and never putting them on again.
I wish you wore those every day.
I haven't worn pants since then.
Yeah, he's nude. Nude from the waist down.
Nude from the waist down. No underwear, nothing.
He's just dangling Winnie the Pooh style.
If you see him in public, it's quite a show.
But, yeah, so, desire. Like, I do think there's a line for–
That's why you don't leave the house in the winter.
I leave the house wearing shorts.
You love that. I went out to get the mail today wearing flip-flops, shorts, and a t-shirt.
And there's snow and ice on the ground.
Anyway, desire's a problem. It can be a problem. But it could, maybe, have you take action.
Like my actions I was taking was to I was learning, because it was amazing. Like Twitter was just invented. There were all these people who knew all these things I didn't understand, and there was like marketing and business and all these various things that I could consume and learn and dive into.
That was all a new world to me, but I didn't have the objective of starting a business. I didn't know that was a option, which sounds, to me, today, crazy. But I knew absolutely no one who didn't have a job that they kept for their entire life.
Like one job, start to finish. I knew no one who didn't do that. That was all I knew.
That's a very reverse negative.
It's like Reverse double negative.
Flip for feet. Who knows?
Did you just quote Uno to me? How dare you? I'm a lady.
But I think we keep coming back to like the same themes in this show, which I think is really interesting, like from past episodes. You said you were constantly learning and exploring, and that's something that's super crucial to us, like something we recently learned, which I'll talk about hopefully in a future video, like in an actual standalone video, about what we learned and applying it to what we want you to do.
It'll make sense. Burying the lead.
Frameworks for Local Marketing Short Videos
No, so Highway Shorts, it's short videos and it gives you the exact framework. It's the exact framework to make short-form content to make do hyper-local marketing and be successful in your local market. So, that's what Highway is that will be out very shortly because it's almost done, finally.
I was going to say, if you have been part of any part of the journey with Highway, we've been talking about it for 700 years, and we have finally figured out even better what it is now.
Well, I mean, you know, it's been It's been 80% done for like four months, but there just hasn't been time. So, we're just about there, and it should be, hopefully, later this month. However, what was I saying?
Highway is the short form, how you can be hyper local. So, what you're saying now is from what we've learned, we've actually deciphered how to convey to you, dear listener, how to create long-form content just as successfully as the short form with Highway, but without being overwhelmed. So, that's what you're really excited about.
I'm so excited about that because I do this for everybody else, but not for myself, because it is very difficult. But I'm I'm good at keeping people on the rails and keeping them like prompting them, because I know exactly what they should be saying. But then when it comes to your own content, which I know everybody struggles with this, it's like, "What the hell do I talk about?
I don't know anything. Like, no, I don't know anything. We all know things." But how do I package what I have into Like this is why people hire us, and this is why we fly all over the country.
Yeah, we do all of this for them.
But now, giving a framework where you can be like, "Okay, all I need is their framework."
Yes, and this is going to be so stupid simple. Like it gets me so excited, and we just had this little unlock today about it. So, I don't know.
That's what I was working on for part of today, and I'm very, very excited.
When you're talking about exploring and you don't know where you'll end up, so exploring a completely different discipline is what led us to these con- connected threads that suddenly is like, "Oh, this is how you package it."
And it's something that I've wanted to explore for a really, really, really long time, like since I was a kid.
Robert Greene and The 48 Laws of Power
Right. But, and I just wanted to say with the This is why we say no objectives in exploring. So, Robert Greene wrote The 48 Laws of Power.
He's a very, very famous author. He spent his career as a journalist. He As a kid, he wanted to be a novelist.
He realizes no money writing fiction, "So I'm going to be a journalist." And then years into his career as a journalist, someone from the office, his manager or whatever, brought him out to lunch. And then he's just like, "Okay, Robert, you aren't good at this. Go to law school, go to whatever, further your education, and find the thing that's actually what you can do, because your writing is too weird.
Like you're You're not relatable. Like the things that you say aren't able to be connected with the people reading the magazine," or newspaper, whatever it was. And then he's like, "Okay.
Like, I guess I'll just try to figure out what I'll do." So, he said the way he frames it, he spent six years wandering. He was a What is it in the lobby of a hotel?
Yeah, he was like a concierge at a hotel in Paris. He did construction in, like, somewhere else in Europe. He did every possible job he can think of in six years.
He did over 60 different jobs, which is bonkers, because that's like 10 a year. 1 a month. Jesus!
So, he just kept jumping job to job to job to job to job to job to job. He's always writing, because he has a passion for it, but he had no outlet for this. And when he's 36 year years old, someone that he met through his current job at the time took him out to lunch, and he's like, as you know, "Like I package and print and distribute books.
I know you like writing. Do you happen to have a book in you?" And in that moment, Robert was like, "Well, the thing that I've found in all these jobs that I think is really fascinating is you look throughout history at people with power, and the exact tactics they seem to use, like a Julius Caesar, is being used in these like jobs with the people that I work with now.
And everyone's trying to put up this front, and they're exerting their power in ways that is so familiar throughout history. Like, I think it'd be interesting to write a book about that." And he was so passionate about it that this guy, who just wanted another book to publish and try to make a buck, he said, "I'll pay you to live for you to write 50% of the book.
Once you have 50% of this book, I'll pitch it to publishers, and then we'll get an advance so you can finish the book, and we'll publish it." That's his very first book ever written, and that's The 48 Laws of Power. He spent six years doing anything after being told he can't be a writer, being a journalist isn't for you because you're just you're not good at this.
He did something comp– everything completely different from writing. And then the opportunity, sort of the presumed objective that he would have had when he was a kid, presented itself. He had all the experience to be able to make the thing that got him to that point, and that path was completely random and sporadic and only clear looking backwards, not forwards.
Yeah. And for context, 48 Laws of Power, if you haven't heard of it, is probably one of the most celebrated books of modern history, just because it's essentially a how-to manual for how to understand power dynamics and what's going on. Like he sets it up in the intro, I believe, as like so you can see what people are using against you or you can use against people, which I loved the way he framed that, which I was like, "Ooh, that's spicy." and then he went on to write 48 Laws of– or The Art of Seduction, and a couple others.
Yeah, several others, but 48 Laws of Power by far, leaps and bounds, is his big hit and, like, has made him ver- a very wealthy author.
And that's where Ryan Holiday got his start, another very profound and prolific author, in case you haven't heard of him.
-. But, yeah, so like that's that's another example of why we talk about no objectives and how objectives get in the way, because you can't He couldn't have mapped that out. There's no way.
And if he wanted to write a book and be like, "I am going to write a book," he would not have been a concierge at a hotel. He would have not done construction. He wouldn't have taken 58 other jobs in that six-year period.
That's another book he should write: 60 Jobs of Robert Greene.
Yeah. But like there's no way he could be That'd be a very interesting book. There's no way he could be where he is now if he didn't explore.
So, that's why we're so adamant that you have to explore.
And that's what we've been doing a lot more of lately, and that's when I've had the best time in life. Like that's probably the closest I can get to happiness is when I learn something new, that just brings me so much joy, and you don't know where you're going to use it in the future, if you do or if you don't. Like there's I keep saying that, but there's no pressure to use everything you learn.
You can purely just learn something for the fun of learning it in the moment, maybe sharing it as a dinner party fact, but like just learn anything. Like literally, learn anything. I don't care what it is.
Well, never stop learning, too.
Because that's Everything you learn forms who you are and how you think about things. Everything you experience does the same. But it isn't that if I learned how to make a glass jar, on its face, there's no utility in me learning how to do that.
But I would have to then be understanding more of the principles of what makes glass, what makes it work in different temperatures, what the reason is for certain shapes to the glass, because it'll stop it from shattering, and this and that. How all of that myriad collection of specific knowledge would apply to different things that we do is unknown.
But who knows if learning how to make a glass jar, that could inform everything we do forever, but I wouldn't know this until I actually took the opportunity to explore and see.
I literally just had a quote pop up on Readwise. If you don't have that app, you get it immediately, especially if you are an avid reader. But it was talking about–
We have a discount code on our site, too, I think in the show notes here.
Unplanned Exploration and Non-Fiction Reading
There you go. What was Oh! The book So, it was from "Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned." Hold, please.
And this is a book, if you're interested in the topic of objectives and not having objectives and why you shouldn't, "Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned" is a phenomenal book. It is It completely changed how we think about so much, and that book I could see looking back on that book as being one of the formidable books in our journey.
Got it. So, I only made it a little bit through the book, and that's completely fine, but I got what I needed. So, this was the quote that I just saw.
He was talking about how I forget exactly. I think it was to make computers, like how you actually got to the computer, the most ass-backwards, roundabout way possible. Like, if you set out to make a computer, you wouldn't have made a computer.
So, it just It reminded me of that, exactly what you were saying. "Even after vacuum tubes were first discovered, no one would realize their application to computation for over a hundred years. The problem is that the stepping stone does not resemble the final product." So, like And just so you know, that's how computers work like binary, like 1, 0.
So, vacuum tubing, think of as like a 1 or a 0. Like it's on or off.
Yeah. Who did that song? 1 0 1 0 I don't know, but you're you're diverting from what we're talking about.
But, it's just It's not having an objective, like just taking all the disparate pieces that you're dumping into your little head and, like, stir it around, and then you get a stew of whatever. Like, that's exactly what happened with Robert Greene. If he didn't work all these different jobs and have all this access to a variety of very different people, he would not have made one of the best books written in all time, I would argue.
So,
One of the most popular, for sure, or successful, I mean.
Like, don't be afraid of doing things outside of your normal vein. And something I want to say, if you read primarily fiction books, you need to dabble in the non-fiction just a little bit. I'm seeing everybody's end-of-year reading lists, and it's all fiction books.
Fine. Like, whatever brings you joy. But for every, like, two fiction books, throw in one non-fiction.
That will help you, especially if you don't feel happy or feel good in the moment. Learning that little bit, like I feel like that's almost the secret to finding your happiness and finding success, and it'll jog your brain loose of things that maybe Especially if you're a business owner or an entrepreneur, it'll help you sort of figure out like, "Oh, maybe I should try this," or "Maybe this could be a solution for what I'm sort of looking for," or "Like I feel stuck right now in my business.
What if I try X?" Like any little thing, it can help you. Like every book has one little nugget of wisdom. I'm a firm believer in that.
So, like if you go into a library, it's just a bunch of nuggets waiting for you to find them. And, like, my nuggets are going to be different than your nuggets. I love chicken nuggets.
I'm kidding.
But that was the thing with the "Thick Face, Black Heart" book.
Yeah, I also didn't finish that one.
Because it was one specific premise we've talked about before. We don't have to get into it. But that changed so much and is so valuable.
But, yeah, learning So, like, reading fiction, you get sort of a look into human dynamics and, like, life and things. But, I mean, I'd argue mostly that's surface level. You can't get too far unless it's hard science fiction.
Like this like "The Martian," that's a great book. It's I think the book is way better than the movie, and that's hard science. So, how whatever Whatney or Watney or something, how he survived on Mars is how you would survive on Mars, and how he escaped Mars is how you would escape Mars based on science.
So, there's stuff there, but a lot of books are fun. They're just entertainment. But as soon as you get into the non-fiction, you can It's infinite.
We can learn so much about the world, about society and culture and entertain– Like we can learn about entertainment, and learning about entertainment can inform things that we do in a way that just consuming the entertainment might not.
And then, it'll also help you even enjoy your novel more, is if you're dissecting it as you're reading it. I don't know, that's something that we really love doing, is we dissect every single thing.
So, I don't know, though, if that would That might hinder other people. But for us, we find joy in that.
But I feel like then it helps you appreciate it more, in a way. I See, again, this is my perspective, but for us,
Yes! And But I love dissecting it and seeing why it is a piece of creative writing or why somebody chose to tell the story this way versus, like, the traditional sort of story format. Like, why is it like this?
Why didn't they do that? So, I don't know. I guess, yeah, maybe that might ruin your stories for you, but at least just try to throw in one book of non-fiction for every fiction book, cuz that's, honestly, that's going to have That's going to pay bigger dividends than anything else that you're reading.
And just for real quick, Robert Greene, you think if he if he kept with journalism and never explored, never wrote his book, he could just have a long career in journalism, that's fine. The estimate the estimate of his net worth right now is $10 million. He's sold over 10 million copies of his books with 48 Laws of Power being the bulk of those books.
And not that monetary success is everything, but just he accomplished a major goal, or not even a goal, he accomplished a major pursuit, which is amazing.
Cuz it all ties back to everything we talk about. Like if you're if you're stuck on, "I need to get this thing, and I'm going to follow this set path," maybe then I'll stop and maybe I'll start again. You know, "I wish I could do." Like, no, just do it and do something.
And you're going to get somewhere. It won't be right there, the point that you're looking at, but you're going to get somewhere and there's going to be opportunity that shows up.
Yeah, and it could be the shittiest way that you're doing it right now, and that's fine. Like, everything will look like shit when you start out. Trust me, I had to look through some of my old videos that I edited, and I was like, "Dear god, kill me." But I had to get through that to get to the videos that I create now, which I would say are pretty fucking great.
Well, they're effective. They work very well at what we have them do.
Yeah, so you have to get through the muck and, like, the bleh in order to get good. So, just keep doing it and don't be a quitter, cuz we don't like quitters.
With that, let's quit this episode.
