How many followers do I need to make money?

[00:00] [music]

Welcome back to What is MAVEN, the podcast about whatever this is, and videography, and business, and all sorts of stuff. I'm Jeff Sarris.

And I'm Amara Andrew. Perfect! You need to watch the video version if you're listening to this because that was quite spectacular, if I say so myself.

Yeah, I forgot that we also go out on audio only.

What? Hello!

But yeah, welcome back to the show, and what are we doing today?

Today, we are going to be talking about a thousand true fans, why you need to have them, how you can do that, and why we love each other, and you!

That sounds good! But yeah, you don't need as many fans as you think you might need.

No, it sounds like a lot, but it's really not. And we'll tell you why in a moment, but first, I want to talk to you about stuff.

To me?

To you.

She wants to talk to me. Okay, so you need to leave the room right now, whoever's out there.

Okay, so now we can talk. Okay, they can't see us.

Yeah.

So, so this week we had a really fun beach day, and we also went to a bookstore that we really love, and we've been waiting to get this book, it's called The Creative Act. I think, did we recommend it last week? I don't remember.

So, I don't think it came up yet. But I had read the sample and loved it.

Yes, and I hadn't read any of it, and I was waiting for our local library to give me a copy, and I was like 600th in line. It's really funny because it just now became available this week. But anyway, we went to the bookstore because it was part of our adventure, and we got the book, The Creative Act by Rick Rubin, is what I said.

If you follow me on social media, you've already seen this.

Rick Rubin.

Rick Rubin. Rick Rubin. And I totally forgot what it was that I read now.

There was something specific in it. Oh! It was about

What? Go ahead.

Welcome back to What is MAVEN and what was I going to talk about?

It's funny, as soon as everything's recording, I just black out. It's like the stage performance thing where you just you psych yourself out. Anyway, you remember what I was going to talk about, right?

Are you kind of know?

Is it in your notes right there?

No, it's not. It should have been.

No, but just how creative people need creative outlets.

Oh, yeah. That's what it was. Something that resonated with you and resonated with both of us.

Yes, so I'm only the second section in because technically, they're chapters, but it reads more like a section. It's not like Chapter One.

Yeah, he did it almost like little blog posts.

I really like it. It's like a poem almost, in a way, too. But, yeah, part of it was that creative people need to create constantly, all the time, which is something that we do constantly.

I mean, if you look at my YouTube channel, we have like a 100 podcasts that we've started together, just because it was, and that was when I was working, I think, still, so it was it was just different. But, now we are devoted to you, dear listener.

Well, no, we have a bunch of different things we always do. So, creativity is different for everyone. For you, what does creativity look like?

'Cause you, I think, fit more the mold of what someone thinks of as artist and creative.

Well, yeah, it's like more art-based, like visual art, performing art, I guess.

If you watch the beginning of this episode, you know exactly what that means.

Yeah, I minored in dance. No.

No, she didn't.

No, I didn't. Not at all. Yeah, I just I love creating.

Like, I've always loved making stuff. As a kid, I would Every time my mom would come home from work, I would have a new drawing for her, like during the summer and stuff like that. It was just like something I loved.

And just throughout, I mean, I went to art school, so that tells you all you need to know. But, yeah, just like making stuff and expressing myself, but just like literally making things. Even making dinner, if which I've started making a series, "What I Ate Last Night," so check it out if you want on my channel.

You have a video series on all social media, but YouTube.

Which We will talk about different platforms in a second, also, teaser. Something you need to know, so stay tuned. It is very helpful to you, I promise.

I will remember that. But, yeah, just like creating things, like dinner and whatever, I just I love it. And that's so different to me.

And I remember when we first met, you said, "I don't have" 'Cause I was trying to ask him, like, "Oh, so what do you do?" or like, "Who are you?" This was back when we were just friends. And it was, "Oh, like what are some of your hobbies?" And he said, "I don't have hobbies. I have businesses," which I was like, "Who the fuck is this guy?" But, now I get it, because now I don't have hobbies.

I also have businesses, and it's just it's fun being able to make things and make money, like make a living doing what you love is huge.

So, that's the key part. So, I would always say that because, not because it could sound like the only things I do are going to be to make money, but inevitably anything that I was interested in became a business.

Which is amazing. Like, being able to not only do that, like start the business yourself, because something we talked about last week was, or maybe the week before, you've had coaching clients who have been like, "I want to start X, Y, and Z," and you're like, "Okay, then do it tomorrow." And, like, this week we've been talking about that with someone else.

And they don't take that first step to actually create something. It's just like, "Well, yeah, I'd like to do this," but then it never happens. So, kudos to you and you've been successful with it.

Well, yeah, and this week we have, real quick on that, because you said there's two people who are starting this week, and I'm going to hold them accountable, which

Oh, good job!

Is something that is It's important. Like, the accountability goes a long way, but it depends it depends on the person. If you can push them 'Cause it depends on the relationship and so many things.

So, I'm pushing two people, one of them tomorrow and one later in the week, should be starting the thing that they've been pro- procrastinating on.

Well, and having that community is huge. Having that accountability is huge because, like, we've talked about from various different instances where you have artists from different time periods, they all somehow show up in the same area. Well, it's not coincidental.

They are like, "I need that community."

Give me an example. 'Cause I know what you mean, but

I'm specifically thinking like the Impressionists or just people in late 1800s, early 1900s.

But who is that? Who What artists are considered Impressionists?

Don't put me on the spot like this. So, I'm trying to think.

So, when Da Vinci was painting?

Oh, that was like a fuck So, that's not really a good example, necessarily. Well, he did go to Flo- Okay, so we're going to talk about late 1800s, early 1900s in Paris, specifically, because that was kind of the time frame that I studied. So, like you'd have Oh my god, I'm blanking right now.

This is terrible. But, like, Picasso left Spain to go to Montmartre in the early 1900s to go to Paris and say what you want about Picasso, whatever. But, he went specifically to this tiny, little artists' village because that's where Renoir was.

That's where Oh my god. Monet was. That's where Pissarro was.

Like, that's where a bunch of these different artists had settled. And then Van Gogh, I think, was there for a little bit. And then you just had all these different people who funneled in, and they went to make this community, and it just kept going.

And the part of that gets me is those are all names that we basically all know.

Yes.

They all came from the exact same time period, from the exact same place, that not that they originated there, but they built who they are there. And this happens time and time again in everything. So, like you can look at YouTube, and there's a group of YouTubers who all started at the same time.

You look at blogging, there's a group of bloggers who all started at the same time. You look at all these different things today, and it's the community of people, like when I

Like Austin, Texas now, for podcasts.

Yeah, like a physical community there or it can be digital, as well, and where it's everyone who started at the same time knows each other. Like, when I started doing the business stuff, I was like There was like a class of 2006. Everyone who started blogging then, by 2009, 2010, they were huge.

They had enormous businesses, so much s- success. And then you would see 2010, 2011 was like the next class, and then a few years later, the next. Now, it's like more social media instead of blogging, but it's the same thing, and it's consistently happening because it's people on a wave, and not a wave in a bad thing, but they're they're seeing the trend and they're seeing where it's at.

They're connecting with it and being like, "Oh, I want to be in this and contribute to the space," and then connecting with others. Like Matt D'Avella. He is considered a YouTuber.

Like, h- he's the director of the film that we produced, "Minimalism," and at that time, he hadn't done anything on social media. He was a wedding videographer. He didn't He never did a feature film, he never did anything like that, but if you look at him now, he is within the community of self-development and personal development YouTubers.

So, like you can see him, they all know each other, they all came up at the same time. For someone starting today in that exact niche, you're going to have trouble.

What did you call me? So,

Not only forming your community of creatives surrounding you, but this is a perfect segue into our topic for today, which is how to create a community to follow you and to give you money. 'Cause, I mean,

Well, and how many people? Like, how hard is it to get a million people who know who you are?

It's next to impossible or you have to know someone and do It's the whole That's a separate We'll talk about that in another episode. But, for now, we're talking

We're talking about what?

The Is it what you know or who you know and all that, and we have a lot of thoughts on that, so that will be a separate topic for the future.

Well, and just to touch on it super quickly, I think saying it's who you know is very cynical, but I think it's who you know and what you know, because either one by themselves is useless. If you if you know a lot, you're successful, but no one knows you, you have no way to do that thing for others. But if people know you and they have no possibility of saying like, "Oh, Amara does this." If it's just like, "Oh, I know her.

She's nice." Like, does that You're missing the other half. So, I think it's like It's cynical to say just one, but it's actually a positive to realize it's both who you know and what you know. But not to digress too far from what we're talking about today.

I got notes on this, so we can go everywhere.

Well, yeah. And, like, so a million people, you think like, "Oh, I need a million views, I need a million followers, I need this, I need that," which can be a threshold maybe for making decent money in ad revenue on YouTube.

Yeah, that's a very different goal. But if you are a small business owner, entrepreneur, real estate professional, whatever, you don't need a million people. I mean, you literally could not help a million people.

Even your products will not be geared toward a million people, so then what should you do instead? You need a thousand true fans.

Yeah, so this is a concept that Kevin I am having trouble. Kevin Kelly wrote about Do you remember, was it 2008?

2008, yeah.

Okay, yeah, so it's a while ago. It was It was a hypothesis at that time, 'cause he had seen it, but it hasn't hadn't really come to what it is now at the time. But basically, 1,000 people, 1,000 people who are true fans, meaning they support everything you do.

That might mean buying everything you sell, but that might also just mean talking about you. Like, you are remarkable to them for specific reasons, so they remark upon you. Like that's, remarkable is remarking upon someone or something.

And having that fan base is everything that you need. It's a number that's attainable. You could think about it, like if you built up 20 new people a month, like it's That's There is actually a trajectory to 1,000, where a trajectory to 1,000,000 is just not something you should even consider, but also not something you need, either.

And the beauty of it, too, is 1,000 is just sort of a nebulous number. Like, it's enough if you have a $100 product, and 1,000 people buy it, you have a perfect income for your life.

Yeah, if each of those 1,000 people spend $100 a year, you have a $100,000 a year business.

Or, you could have 50 people, and I'm not going to even try to do the math right there. $2,500? I don't know. We'll just We'll just ignore me.

But

She says she's bad at math and then is always way quicker than me.

I'm terrible at math. That probably wasn't even accurate. Do the math.

It was close-ish.

Let me know in the comments, was that correct? And if not, don't tell me. No.

But, you really don't You 1,000 is a perfect place to aim for. You really don't need that much though to make a sustainable business. I mean, we have a few clients.

What we do is very What? Is it 2,000 instead?

Yeah, you were so close. Like, I just wanted to sort of prove that

Okay.

She says she's bad at math.

I'm terrible at math. But, you don't need that many people to support you and your business and your creative endeavors, especially if you have multiple streams of income, which you should. If you don't, you really need to get on that.

That is first and foremost something that he has taught me, which is hugely valuable, just because you don't know what's going to happen. I mean, I think I have five or six different ones right now, but like obviously varying degrees and stuff like that.

There's one sitting right there.

Yeah, I am making Oh my god. I am so fucking excited for this side tangent. I am making something so exciting for my Etsy shop, By Amara.

You can just look it up on Etsy or you can go to my website, amaraandrew.com or whatismeven.com. What is it now?

Well, I think byamara.co is what goes right to Etsy.

Yes. I am so excited. It's a whole series of things.

I'm not going to give it away. You have to check. Check back by next week.

They will be up. What?

Oh, say what it is. Is this not the microphone?

No. Oh!

I thought my water glass was the microphone for a second.

No, it's a secret. It'll be on my social media. Nope.

It's going to be a

There's a whole lot of

Try it again. Sorry, that was hard. Anyway, so I'm very excited for it, which that is going to be That is part of my separate income.

But, where was my train of thought going?

So, diversifying income streams, how much streams, how much you can achieve with little. So, it all scales. And this is the thing, so if you're a realtor, you don't need millions of people to know who you are.

You need the right people to know who you are in the area that you service.

That number is a lot smaller than one might think. And you can end up approaching things as though you need hundreds of thousands of people or millions of people.

Approaching?

Is that what I said? I was like She smirks and I'm like, "Is she laughing at me for some reason?"

Sorry. No, no, no. I like to giggle.

It was just funny. I was like, " -oh."

You're like, "What do I do now?"

No, but the number, especially for a local business, so we're talking about real estate, we're talking about a coffee shop, even, you could, in theory. Like, the thing that moves the needle is having the right people know you, like you, trust you, and talk about you in the area you service. And that number is so much smaller than one might think.

The more local you can be, also, especially for real estate professionals or, like you said, a coffee shop or whatever, the more you can be on at the forefront of everybody's minds, like, "Oh, my Uncle Bobby's in town, I need to take him to go wherever," or "Oh, my niece's cousin, twice removed, is looking for a home. I love blah, blah, blah.

They're looking kind of in this area. Let me reach out to you."

Well, and along those lines, being the go-to resource for a neighborhood, whatever your neighborhood is, you don't need to be reaching people looking to buy a home, just like what you just said. You reach people who then know, like, and trust you, and who knows when someone's like, " I really need to move." They're like, "Oh, no shit, I know Jane.

Jane's amazing. Like, I've never worked with her, but I love what she does. I've followed her online for years."

Even if it's you're making recipes or something, which ties back to what we've talked about in previous episodes, also. Just the more you can be authentically you and yourself, the more people can relate to that, which I have noticed in my stuff this past week or whatever, where Okay, another side tangent.

I'm going to look at my notes for once, then you can continue.

Yes, that's But what I've noticed is that I've started doing what I ate last night, which is just recording either what I made for dinner or what we ate when we went out to a restaurant or whatever it is. That has done surprisingly well, and I don't really do well with showing people who I am authentically, because like it's just I am good in person, but recording it and trying to put it out there is very difficult for me, and it's just like I only have so many hours in the day, and I'm trying to maximize what I can do.

And I make dinner every fucking day, so why shouldn't I record it? And it takes maybe 45 minutes to an hour to edit together every day, which it sounds like a lot of time, but that's because I'm nitpicky with it and I choose the music and blah, blah, blah. It could be so quick for you to record those things and then it's like, "Oh, blah, blah, blah is gluten-free," or "Oh, they like Siete tortillas, too." I'm just plugging everything.

I just spit, I'm sorry.

Well, no, but even if you were live streaming, you could spit on the mic on live streaming. No, but you could you could live stream the 30-45 minutes, whatever, and then it's just done and out there. But, like, you choose to edit because you're a video editor.

WhatIsMaven.com, if you want to work with her, if you want to have video done for you, it's a good

It's on his sleeve.

Oh, it's on my sleeve? There it is.

But, anyway, just showing who you are because then Uncle Bobby's niece's twice removed, whatever, is If they look you up on Instagram, TikTok, whatever, then they'll be like, "Oh, she loves whatever. I already know two things we can talk about: homes, and then taco shells." Like, it's just such little things, but then it's more, "Oh, I feel like I know this person already."

Yeah, and you want to be front of mind.

Yeah.

Like, you don't need to be everywhere, all the time, but being someone that is trustworthy, someone that you can always turn to, maybe just put a smile on people's faces, like whatever it is, but then that one little thing is that they know, "Oh, that person's also a realtor. That person also is a chef, is a chef at a restaurant in town." Like, "Oh, I got to go somewhere, why don't I go there?

I could see them, I could talk to them, I could hang out," like whatever, "and enjoy their food that I enjoy watching on TV," in quotes, which is now just YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. Like, we all we all have our own media company, and that's something that is easily overlooked. So, we're choosing what our media is.

Like, what shows are we putting out? Like, the shows you've you've put out over time, some have wound up, and like to say shows sounds grandiose, but it is, just it's a topic, it's a hook. Like, what are a few of the things you did over time?

Well, like, at P, we talked about before, I was doing cooking videos because we have like specific dietary way I mean, it's just gluten-free and then dairy-free for me. And eating

And real food.

Yeah, so like no corn, no soy, blah, blah, blah. We try to keep everything as clean as possible. So, I was like, "Well, I can't really find these recipes that I like.

I should just make them." And then, like, mocktails was another thing because I stopped drinking and now I have an occasional Margarita, but

Well, and "Should I Buy This?" was a series for a while.

Yeah, so reviewing certain things, and what else? I feel like I've done so many different things. And then like I teased, we had separate podcasts from this, and now I have my other podcast, By Amara, where I talk about weird, strange, and just downright odd things in the art and history field, so you can check that out if you'd like.

But, and now "What I Ate Last Night" is another thing that I am I have my other show now, so just make a bunch of fucking shows, and someone will watch because then you can kind of capture your audience and your people and your community and your 1,000 true fans.

Yeah, and the more you do, the more you decide what you enjoy and what resonates with people.

Yes.

Like, that's the big thing, is if it's something you like, you'll stick with it. If it's something you feel like you should be doing because, "Oh, I saw XYZ channel on YouTube does really well," you're not going to stick with it and you won't get to that point, because also the path they followed is gone. That path has already been traversed.

So, your path will be unique to you and you're going to have a lot of different things that make up who you are. And that's the important part, is to be you and showcase that in every way that you care to.

Yeah. So, I kind of want to jump forward a little bit then. Once you've captured your 1,000 true fans, what do you do?

Actually, before we jump there, could I say one thing?

No.

Like, one thing that I think's valuable that we don't always think about, something that helped me when I was starting out, was think about how much you need or want to earn a year.

And then reverse engineer that. What is that number? So, like we said,

$1 million.

Well, yeah. And, like, even doing that then, it's like, okay, what's a million, here, what's a million divided by 12?

$200,000 a month? Or no, that's like way lower.

So, it's $83,000 a month.

Well, I want $200,000 a month.

But, like, thinking about that, 83,000 a month is big. But then it's like, okay, if that was your number, which I'd rather bring the number down, because I want it to be like reasonable. So, like if we do just $100,000.

Yeah, so that's 8,300 a month.

So, it's $8,333.33. So, how can you make $100,000 a year? Is you need 8,000 a month.

So, if it's 1,000 people, it's one thing, but what if it's eight people giving you a little over 1,000 a month? Like, that number feels more attainable.

Oh, yeah.

Or if it's like, I need to sell XYZ product. If I need to make a $5,000 a month, say, to really like be able to do this and feel comfortable in where I am, having the bills paid, maybe it's a side hustle, maybe it's your main hustle, like what can I do to make 5,000 a month? And then breaking it down from there, like I could sell a $100 product or service, or I can mow lawns, and this is how much I could make in the three months of the summer.

And then document it and put it on YouTube.

Well, yeah, just basically re- reverse engineering a number down to the smallest piece and being like, "Well, how can I reach that number?"

It's actually very doable, which is shocking.

Yeah, and it's It's It's an art. It's a creativity. It's a It's a time to stretch that muscle and figure out, okay, how can I get creative here?

Like, maybe you're like, "Oh, I can make $100 a month mowing lawns." Oh, then I could also make another $900 a month doing this thing that I already do for everyone else that I know. Why don't I just tell Why don't I do nails for friends and be like, "Oh, I'm starting a little business." Like, it could be anything.

Yeah.

But then also it could be online, which opens the horizon expands the horizons, but just the reverse engineering part is the one thing I wanted to say, which then fits into your, "1,000 doesn't sound like a lot," but even the number can sound smaller and smaller the more you reverse engineer it.

Yeah, it's huge. But now to zoom forward, what do you do when you have those fans? So, I also wanted to say when you have that group of people, whether like we talked about 1,000, 500, 5,000, whatever, true fans, you need to do something special for them.

You need to make sure that you're providing value to them, whether that's through I mean, there's a whole mess of stuff that you could do, but just making sure that they feel special, 'cause like so many people don't quite understand that you need to provide value for the person, because also why would anybody Why should anybody care?

Why should anybody listen to you? What are What is the person going to get out of you? And this isn't to be mean or anything, but it's not about you, so stop making it about you.

It's about the people who are turning tuning in. So, are you giving them some sort of inspiration? Are you just showing, "This is my process, and this is how I do it"?

Well, and I like just the concept of enter-entertain and inform.

Yes.

That every

That's what I'm building up to.

Okay, yeah. Well, that's sorry. Spoiler alert, keep going.

No, that's perfect, 'cause, yeah, he got to course correct me a little bit. I'm so creative. I'm just everywhere.

But, yes, to either how are you entertaining this person? Are you, like I said, like providing inspiration, are you being funny, are you giving them 60 seconds of a break throughout their shitty day or 5 minutes or whatever it is? Or are you teaching them, "Okay, this is how I do X, Y, and Z.

This is how I make stickers. This is how I cook this. This is how I do this.

This is how I go out and about. This is how I direct approach. This is how I cold call.

This is how you write up this report. This is how you do this for your client"? Like, that is so valuable not only to the client, themselves, but also to future agents or something like that.

Like, talking real estate specifically, but whatever.

Yeah, and I just wanted to say one thing. The common concern is, "I can't teach them how I do what I do, then they won't pay me to do it," which is completely wrong because you will teach people to do it, some will do it, some will say, "I'm not going to do that, I'd rather pay this person who is a proven expert, who shown me, I've done it, they've shown me how to do it and I replicated it, but I don't want to do this every month."

Exactly. We all know how to grocery shop, yet I still order groceries because I hate grocery shopping! Like, it's just Or you can order services.

Like, it's something so baseline as that or, like, you know how to wash your clothes, but you're going to take it to the dry cleaner because you don't have time, because you don't want to. Like, don't worry about that.

Well, yeah. And people will know you, like you, and trust you, and the trust comes from educating.

Yes!

Like, that's the thing.

100%. And that's the whole point of MAVEN. M MAVEN, you're touching his pec tit.

But, it's to become the expert with influence and show you are the expert in your field. You are the one that other people within your field go to for information to be like, "How do I do X, Y, and Z?" Teach them your method. They might adopt it, they might not.

Who gives a fuck? Just make it available.

Well, and along those lines,

Do it!

This show encapsulates the MAVEN Method. Like, what we're dripping out over time, which eventually will be a course, will be a hand-holding type thing where we'll help you do what it is that she does for people for like, honestly, a lot of money per month. Like, you can see how much it costs per month if you go to whatismeven.com, if you're interested.

Check it out, try it.

But it's going to be for a few people. Like, that's how it will always be. But how do we help people?

We educate them. How do we help people do what they want to achieve? We educate and we guide.

We do as much as we can with the time we're allotted on this planet, and we want this to But, we want this to be this podcast also to represent that.

And we just like helping people. Like, at the end of the day, like when people are just like, "No, they're competition," there are enough fucking people. My god, like just work together and just, can we all get along?

Would you put in my kombucha, man?

Oh, is that kombucha?

Yeah, I want to recommend it. It's like my favorite flavor. But providing value to people.

I just wanted to talk about one brief example. So, Good Mythical Morning is a show. It's by Rhett and Link, and just watch it.

It's really fun. Just It's like They have so much stuff, I love what they do.

I just want to say one thing, they also are a perfect example of the Iron Law of Stardom that we talked about last week,

Yes, 100%.

Because they've reinvented themselves constantly,

Which is amazing. Like, I love them. They are amazing, amazing.

But, I forgot where I was going. Oh! They have something, it's called the Mythical Society.

They just They do such a great job, but they have something called the Mythical Society. That is a paid service. It's a subscription where it renews every month, kind of like Patreon, which I know you want to touch upon that, as well.

It's something for their 1,000 true fans, and again, it's probably like 10,000 or maybe just 500, who cares? But, it's for their die-hard fans who are like, "I absolutely need to give you $30 a month." I struggle with this. Is that how?

No, it's great. I think we're getting a little

Oh, sorry.

Bring it lower.

So, I So, it's for their die-hard fans who want to give them $30 a month, $5 a month, a nickel, like whatever it is, and then in return, they're providing extra content, which, again, it's subjective. Whatever you can handle, do it, but they also have pins, they have stickers, they have merch that only you can buy if you're in the Mythical Society.

And this is sounding like a huge ad, but it's brilliant because it's like, "Well, no. We want to give this to our community and if they want to support us, then we'll give them stuff back." And it's just constantly giving value.

And the big thing that like I talk about with people all the time, and we've talked about, is the entire goal of all of this is to make people feel something.

Yes.

Whether you they love you or hate you, they will feel something.

And when you make someone feel something, they remark upon it.

Yes.

When it's a remarkable feeling. So, if you make people feel good, connected, make them feel a part of something, that's what Mythical does really well. That's what a lot of Patreons are.

People feel a part of something. Maybe they just want more content, but maybe they want to be a part of this community. They only get access for $2 a month, but that $2 makes them feel something special.

And that's why you need to make sure that you're making the content for everyone else, not for you. This is not about you, and if you think it is, you're in the wrong fucking world. Like, just take yourself and your ego out of it, and if you want to build a business and build a fandom and everything, you need to build for people.

End of the day, too many people get caught up in like, "Well, me, me, me. It's my show." And it's like, "No. What is anybody Why would anybody give a fuck what you have to say?" So, anyway, that's my little soapbox thing.

I think that's all I got. Oh, I wanted to ask you, who are you a true fan of, Mr. Sarris?

See, that's a tough one for me.

Good, I'm putting you on the spot.

So, it's tough because we're looking at true fans from revenue, but also from promotion.

Yes. Like, who are you so stoked about that you just are obsessed with most everything they do?

So, there's Talking about the feeling.

Not obsessed, but really enjoy.

Well, yeah. Like Well, talking about the feeling, who are people who have made such an impact on my life that I've changed my life for it?

And there are I would always say three. The third one now is a little nebulous because I feel like it's shifted, but it's what sparked it. So, the first person was Tim Ferriss with "The 4-Hour Workweek," and that was 2007 or '8, whenever that book came out, I think I bought it the week it came out.

And that completely opened my mind and made me see for the first time that working a job, sitting in this one, sitting at this one desk, doing this one thing until I was retirement age, wasn't the only path. That I could never repay to that person. There is nothing that I could ever do or say that would that would return that to him.

But that means I'm forever a fan. I don't listen to all, like now he's a podcaster, I don't listen to all of his podcast, I never have.

You listen to a lot, though.

Only this last week I got back into it, but I hadn't listened in probably a year, or any of it.

But you keep tabs on that person, even though it's been years.

Well, and this is the thing, if someone is like, "Oh, what's a great interview podcast?" Even if I hadn't listened, I would say, "Oh, Tim Ferriss is a great show because he talks to experts that do this and that, blah." Like I would have the reasons even if I'm not in right now, forever, there's that person. The next one was Mark Sisson, so he wrote "The Primal Blueprint." Again, this was like 2008 or '9.

Like a lot of change happened for me right around the time just before I broke out on my own and started doing this, but the primal approach to eating, which is basically paleo, the paleo diet, but tweaked a little bit. I learned so much from him that he's someone who changed my life for the better in terms of health. We had a platform called PaleoHacks.

We talk about diet, like the diet is basically the paleo diet. That's what we follow. That's what I've followed for the last 12 years or whatever it is, 13, 14.

I don't know how many years it's been.

You're a one. You say you're good with math. No.

See, you're quick. You're quick, I'm telling you.

I'm just teasing.

But, so Tim Ferriss, Mark Sisson, like everything Mark does, I've followed, Primal Kitchen, like you might have seen the different products, the mayo, all these things. I support it because I know, like, and trust him. Like, I've been to the man's house.

Like, we've Like, I know him well from the outside and a little bit in person, and I trust his judgment and what he's creating because I know this person and I like him and I trust him, and he's made such a positive impact on my life. And the third is more sort of philosophy now. So, it was I'm blanking on his name all of a sudden.

"Vagabonding."

Ralph Potts?

Yeah, Ralph Potts was someone else who opened my mind to travel and sort of a philosophy of life, but now that has morphed more into stoicism. So, I would almost say, like, Seneca. It's not someone who's creating something new.

Seneca!

But, but Seneca's someone who I always have like sort of near and dear, that like it what he's written, what he had written 2,000-plus years ago, means a lot to me and has formulated a lot of my thoughts on time and life and living life, knowing we will die and different things like that. So, those are the three. I know that was a long answer, but Tim Ferriss, Mark Sisson,

No, I like it. It's comprehensive.

Yeah, like a stoic philosophy. But, also, it's not that I'm giving any of them a bunch of money all the time, but I am forever promoting it. You have Peluva's, which are toe shoes.

I do. I have two pairs now.

Yeah, because Mark Sisson started that company, so I knew about it. We had the whole Vibram FiveFingers toe shoe stuff came out of like the primal world, the paleo world, but now he made more fashionable ones. I mentioned to her and she's like, "Actually, no.

I might want to try them. That's interesting." So, like I've remark

Yeah, they weren't hideous. The other ones were rough.

But, yeah. It's But, that's the example. I'm remarking upon it.

I'm a true fan, even if I'm not always buying something, but we all influence the people around us.

We buy the Primal Kitchen stuff, even though now he might not own it, or Kraft owns it now.

He still runs it, but Kraft bought his company for a lot of money because so many people

Knew, liked, and trusted him that line became huge.

I knew'd him.

But, yeah. And what about you?

I don't know, I was trying to think this entire time you were talking. It's funny, because like, obviously, Rhett and Link would be one for me now. It's shifted tremendously, because before it would be a lot of different bands, because that's just what I loved, but I don't know.

A lot of the people that I like are dead, 'cause history and art history and everything, so it's it's hard. I mean, I love the Art Institute of Chicago, downtown. That was literally part of the reason why I moved to Chicago, just because I love that museum, 'cause like my mom is from here and we'd go there like when I was young, and I just love it.

Like, institutions have a lot of problems, blah, blah, blah, but I just love it as a place because I learned so much there. I'm just like trying to look around, like, what do we have? Well, so, it isn't I don't think it's the true fan level, but what are the Patreons we support right now?

There's only two of them.

I don't know, because that's you.

You don't know about that?

I don't know about that. So, like, comedians, I love comedians. I listen to all of their different podcasts, like JRVP.

Junior Vice President.

And like 2 Bears, 1 Cave, and I don't know about that with Jim Jefferies, and Tuesdays with Stories with Mark and Joe.

You were hesitant to say it.

I couldn't remember the name! I was just like, " I'm blanking." Comedy. But, they're just so funny.

But, like, so, yes, those are the Patreons that we support because it's just so entertaining, and it's so personal. Yeah, and it feels like we know the people because they are putting themselves out there, and that's part of it, too, because the comedians, blah, blah, blah, they're very funny and it's entertaining.

Well, yeah. They make us laugh, they entertain us, they are on the

They make me cry. No.

Yeah. They're on the entertain side, but the one thing that we never actually said, just to rewind before we close out, 'cause we're already a little over time, but entertain and inform. So, when you're making content, if you're trying to enter- entertain, that's one thing.

That's really valuable. Trying to inform, that's arguably a little more valuable, I think, but it depends on what it is. But if you can entertain and inform, if you're educating people and entertaining, that's the holy grail.

That's the That is the thing. If you can do both of those, and people can turn to you, maybe when they're they're feeling like they're stuck and they need to get further, or they're feeling down and they need someone to lift them up, if you can do both of those things and you're the person they turn to, that's gold.

You can rule the world. -. But, yeah, so I think that pretty much covers what we wanted to touch on, yeah?

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Weekend.

Weekend who?

We can do anything we want! Boom! Nice!

I thought it was motivational, slightly, and it is the weekend. Ladies and gentlemen, the weekend.

All right. Well, thanks for tuning in this week. This again is What is MAVEN?

What is MAVEN? I wasn't starting now. That's your podcast!

Yeah, this is What is MAVEN, she's Amara Andrew,

He's Jeff Sarris.

Go to whatismeven.com for more. Subscribe, like, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is.

We love you, go create shit. Be personal, be personable, do it.

See ya.

Bye! [40:38] [music]