This recording does not exist. And we'll prove it.

"What really exists is not things made, but in the making. Once made, they're dead."

Hey Explorers, welcome back to Useful Not Famous. This is the show where we dive into topics we find interesting, and we also strive to be the most useful people you know. I'm Amara.

I'm Jeff.

And Sarah's in Andorra.

Yes. So, yeah, we're if you're watching the show, we are remote now. Hopefully, it's recording.

It is. Okay, good. And we are in LA cause we just filmed with one of our clients, and we are filming in our Airbnb right now, for us.

And it's like the perfect little studio, actually.

-huh. I like the spinny chairs.

I do, too. I feel like we need to get some of these, like, crushed velvet spinny chairs with mystery stains.

I don't know about crushed velvet. Mystery stains! This is a very clean Airbnb, it's very nice.

No, I know. It's just things get wear and tear. Anyway.

There's no mystery stains.

I know, I set it up, but I don't know. I like them.

So, "What really exists is not things made, but in the making. Once made, they are dead."

Okay, so what the hell does that mean?

So, I find it funny because last week we talked about the now, and the then, the now. I found the quote that confused me that you were just like, "Yeah."

Yeah.

So, let me read that one and then we'll go back. So, this quote was from Charles Lamb in 19- in 1817.

The one you just read?

The one I'm about to read. This quote that you understand is from Charles Lamb in 1817. "Your now is not my now.

And again, your then is not my then. But my now may be your then, and vice versa."

Yeah, how does that not make sense? Because it's all perspective.

"Your now is not my now, and again, your then is not my then. But my now may be your then, and vice versa."

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it's whatever you're going through right now. Like, my now is right now, but then your then could be my now.

So, those are the same words! I get that part.

I just did what you did.

You see? Now you did it.

But again, it makes sense because it's it's To me, it's what you're experiencing. This is how I'm interpreting it. Now, again, that's the beauty of being a human, we all have different interpretations.

But to me, that's what I'm experiencing right now is maybe something you have already experienced or you will experience. Cause, well, then, then it's… Actually, is that past, or present, or future?

Ooh!

And this is why it's a problem!

But then it's it's whatever. Like, right now, you could be going through something that I've never been going through. I've never gone through.

My brain's still waking up. But then, in the future, I will maybe go through something similar. Again, not everything's going to be the same, but it's what you what your now was at that time, it wasn't my now, but now it's my now.

But then now it's your then.

Thank you! I'm glad you could–

So…

So, I think that's why it's confusing.

Don't use the word in a sentence, and I'm like, "Oh, okay. So, now is now, and then is near now."

I think that's why it's confusing for me is I'm thinking in a temporal sense…

Ooh.

…temporal…

What the hell is that? Don't be throwing around fancy words! Shrimp temporal?

Thinking about time. Yeah, shrimp temporal. But in a temporal sense where I'm thinking about time, like right now versus then, either then in the past or then in the future.

So, I think this confuses me because "your now is not my now", but I'm talking about- I'm thinking about now, but you're thinking about now as your personal experience? Is that how you're saying it?

Yeah, I'm thinking of it more as a personal thing, where it's like, well, my now is right now, but then you're experiencing it differently from me, whether that's you're experiencing whether it's like a specific moment or if it's something that's overall… I don't know.

I like– anyone who's actually watching, I look off into space when I'm trying to think, I'm not…

I know, I do, too. You're not just bored. You're like "boo".

I'm like…

But it's it's… Yeah, it feels like it's maybe, possibly about a moment where you're experiencing this moment, and it might be a little different, or it could be something along the lines of… I totally lost my train of thought.

Choo!

So, you're not thinking about now as in this time and space, right this second now.

But it also could be. Like, that's the beauty of it is if it's like we're going to have different experiences and different perceptions of time and what's going on. Like, do you remember as a kid where it felt like the drive to somewhere took 7 days to get there, even though in reality it only took 15 minutes?

Yes. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. But it was that feeling. Like, now, like cause like I grew up in Arizona, so now when we went back, and I remember driving from point A to point B, and it felt like it took at least an hour, but we just drove it and it took 10 or 15 minutes.

But when you're a kid, that time feels so long and excruciating because of your perception of time. A, you don't know where you're going, you don't know what the streets are, you don't have any context. Also, maybe you didn't want to fucking go wherever you're going cause your parents are making you.

But then now, as an adult, it's like, "Oh, I want to go to this destination," or "Oh, I'm seeking this out." And to you, it's like, "Oh good, it only took 15 minutes to get there," versus So it feels like a shorter amount of time, or vice versa, as a kid, you felt like it took so much shorter. Does that make sense?

It does make sense.

So, I feel like that's sort of that encapsulation is, let's say, our drive from the airport. To me, it felt like it took 15 minutes, but to you, because you were the one driving at night after we had delays in our flights and it took forever, maybe the drive felt like it took 16 days to you. And you're just like, "Oh my god, finally." But like then, my now…

Here we go.

Here we are! So, I feel like it's just It could also just be our perceptions of time. Like I actually like how nebulous that quote is, because I feel like it has so many different definitions, I guess, or def- different ways that you…

Interpretations.

Yeah, that's what I was looking for. Thank you. Bienvenidos de…

Interpretaciones. But just different ways that you can interpret it and experience it, I think. But then also…

I think so. I think that's why it's confusing to me.

Maybe because it's so open-ended, which I know you like more open-ended things, but I think maybe this I don't know.

I think because I see them as–

Now that I'm talking about it more, I am like, "Yeah, that is like a very profound quote," which maybe there is more to it, and I made it feel so simple.

No, that's Maybe that's what I wonder or what I'm stuck on. Is it profound, or is it nonsense? I think that's what I'm caught up on.

Like, it makes sense to you, but to me, I don't even know if it makes sense. But like I hear how you're interpreting it, and I can see it makes sense in that way, but it's not how I thought about it.

So, I think part of it is reading a lot of theory and philosophical stuff.

19th century, as in 1817?

Like, specific– Yeah, like I've I've read a lot of 19th-century theory, specifically related to art. So, I feel like I can jump into that mindset a lot quicker and easier, maybe, than you. But again, it's I don't know.

It's just fascinating. I think it's interesting.

Well, the quote we started with–

Yeah, that one doesn't make any sense to me, so read it again.

"There once…" "What really exists is not things made, but in the making. Once made, they are dead."

So then, how are they dead?

So, I think the podcast right now, what we're doing right now, this exists. And I think I think we can explain it with the show.

Does it exist now or then?

Hush. So, "What really exists is not things made, but in the making." So, right now, we are having this conversation, so this exists in time and space. We're in Woodland Wood- Wood-something, California?

Yeah, Woodland Hills.

Yeah, Woodland Hills, California.

Yeehaw.

This exists in time and space right now, but the moment we're done with this, it's dead. It no longer exists. There's a recording of it, where if you're listening or Well, you're listening or watching right now, so the recording exists, but the actual thing being made only exists while it's being made.

So, for example, in this Airbnb, there are a lot of replicas of famous paintings. So, as soon as we walked in…

Are you mighty sure replicas?

Definitely not the real things. They're shiny. It's vinyl gloss.

No, but this would be the most expensive Airbnb on the planet if all the art was real.

I'd be like, "Huh, what a bargain!" I'd be like, "I'm taking this Courbet with me." But there are a lot of replicas of paintings in here. And, dang it! I lost it, I had it.

What did you just say?

So, I said this podcast only exists while we're making it.

Oh, yes. So, while you're making the artwork, that is That is the joy is like the building of something, I guess, is sort of how I'm thinking you're interpreting this, where it's sort of like how we talk about the stages of fun. There are three stages of fun and we completely made this up one day because we're just like, "Oh, this is actually really interesting."

And I don't even know if it was on the podcast or not, but we just talked about it.

No, it was just us just talking at, again, another Airbnb when we were filming with someone. Just us at night after a long day. We talked about the three stages of fun.

So, the first stage, which is what I especially love, is the pre-planning. So, that's where you're getting like, "What Where are we going to stay? What are we going to do?

What are the days going to consist of?" Like, all those different things that get us excited, or get me I said "us". Get me excited. Then, the next stage of fun is the in-the-moment fun.

So, maybe it doesn't feel– Well, no. It just It is in-the-moment fun, where you're experiencing something and you're like, "Gosh, this is a really great time. Like, I love this.

Look, we're riding on a choo-choo train and this is amazing." And then the final stage of fun, again, according to us, is the after. So, you're thinking of it. You're relaying all the memory Like, replaying them in your head.

Reminiscing.

Yeah, thank you. My coffee hasn't kicked in. But you're replaying them in your head.

You're maybe sharing it with someone and you're like, "Gosh, doesn't this sound so– Why do I keep saying 'gosh'?"

"Gee golly!"

I know, like who am I today? But doesn't this sound like so much fun? Like, we had such a great time.

So, those are the three stages of fun.

I wanted to jump in on the middle one, though, because why this became so profound for us I know we're going a little off-tangent, but this is perfect because the middle stage of fun is the only one we think about. So, in the present moment, having fun. But then where we were debating, and what I think is a good debate for this show right now…

He's talking to you!

… Is there in-the-moment fun? Because can- Is fun an experience we can have?

Like, I can feel warm, I can feel cold, I can feel happy, I can feel sad. And there's lots of other contrasts, I'm not going to list them all.

No, just those!

I can feel smelly, I can feel scentless.

Scentless! Not clean?

No, scentless. Smelly and scentless, contrast!

I mean, that does work.

Now, can I actually be feeling fun? Like, it can– The anticipation of something can be fun. The talking about how fun was it when, but can I, in this moment, feel fun?

Or is fun merely a recollection or a future…

Collection?

…collection? A recollection or a pre-collection? I don't know if that's a thing….

Huh. Let us know in the comments.

Is fun merely a looking back or looking forward on something? Because even if, like, we just…

We were on a roller coaster.

I was literally going to use that analogy. And then is it fun? In this one second, like I'm like [gasp], is that fun?

Or is it fun, the having done it and thinking about it?

So, I would say, cause I was going to use the same exact analogy and argue your same point, where you're on the roller coaster, you're still on that roller coaster, but you just had a little drop and you felt your insides move, which is why you get that feeling, by the way. But you feel that like, "Woah!" So, the two seconds after that, you're like, "This is so fun!" You're already reminiscing about the past of what just happened.

I would argue, and this is against every teaching in Buddhism, mindfulness, whatever, there is no in-this-moment– good band. There is no right now, I would argue, because–

What?

Fun.

Yeah.

Yeah, or just anything. Like, even right now, I'm talking, this is already in the past. This is already happened.

And it's It's your then, it's my now.

He's like, "Stop bringing it up."

But like this really Everything has already happened. Isn't that fascinating? Like, there is no right now.

That will never exist.

But I do think I can feel happy right now, because I think–

But that's happening.

So, like I think I think I can feel happy. So, I think I Like, I'm happy that second, the second Like, I think the happy flows throughout, like a depression or a not-depression, like…

But the happiness is a reaction to something, which then I would argue that happy is an effect. Therefore, it's in the past.

So, okay. Content. Does content work?

Like, I can feel content.

I thought you said "contempt" and I was like, "Oh, that's a little aggressive."

Of course.

But I think I can feel content.

Yes.

So, like in the moment, like now, like I can just I can feel content.

But still, I would say that's a byproduct of all these other things that have already happened, where you now then feel content. But you can't feel future emotions, you can only feel past emotions.

Exactly. Or…

So, like, you could have emotions right now based on future ideas, plans, whatever, but you can't have emotions about something that currently hasn't happened yet. You can only have emotions about something that's already happened. Therefore, your emo- This is getting very complicated.

But, therefore, your emotions are based on the past and they've already sort of happened.

What's an emotion and what's a state? Cause I think contentedness is a state, where maybe happiness is an emotion.

Well, and I feel like Cause then you could argue that joy is a state, but it's also an emotion.

Yes.

Well, that's what– See, because joy and happy–

Cause like content, I would say, is an emotion, as well. Like, I feel like there are no states, it's purely just Cause you always have to feel something.

And that's So, like in this exact Like, every now, I have a state. And I think I can be content, I think I could feel overall joyous.

Yeah.

But can I If Let's just take happy and sad out of it, cause that feels a little too–

Yeah, too on the nose. Like, specific.

Yeah, I– Content feels generic enough, like I don't have to really I just feel I feel good in the space that I'm in. I think you can only feel that now. I think that's actually a now.

I don't think you can ever feel content about the past or the future, because content is a state, not a I don't think content is a brain thought, where it's like, "That was fun," feels like a definition we've applied to something.

So then, is content almost like the default setting, you would say?

I think it should be. Like from a like meditative, Buddhist, whatever practice.

Yeah, I just mean like if that's your Where, yeah, your default state, like where you're supposed to be.

Yeah, like ideally, we should strive to feel content. So that, that I think is in the moment, and there isn't a future-content and a past-content. You're either Con- You're feeling a contentedness right now, or you're not.

I still feel like that's a reaction, though, to other things.

So, I agree on the reaction.

Yeah.

Because everything we feel is Even like what we think, chemical reactions. Like, everything's a reaction, but I do think that can be in the moment, where I don't think fun can be in the in the instant, cause like you said, it's I don't think fun is a feeling. I think you can say, "This is so much fun," but when I say, "This is so much fun," I mean, "That was so much fun three seconds ago, three hours ago, three years ago." That's it.

Nothing beyond that. But I don't think we can feel fun.

I think I agree. I'm just trying to think of any other instances, cause I do feel like I feel like all emotion and feeling is in the past.

Yes. Or in the future, in that I am feeling it, so…

No, you can't. You can only by thinking of the future will you feel that.

And that's all I mean, because the future fun, like it's…

And fun aside, I guess I've been having fun planning the future thing.

Yeah, so that's right now and in the past, because I've been having fun planning right now. But then I still have the other fun to look forward to and I'm excited for future fun, which is fun for me. I feel like people don't talk about fun enough, like the psychology of fun.

I feel like that should be something we'll dive into in a future episode. I mean, we are right now, but…

We'll come back to Fun 101.

Fun 101.

We'll do We'll do Fun 401 next week. It's the upperclassman level.

Yeah, we're talking about all the funs. Funnel cake, index funds, all the things.

Name one more.

I was trying to!

I can see it. I'm like…

Funs-a-ramic? Funerals?

Yeah, is that?

Yeah, so many funs.

Out-funnel.

You already said funnel cake. I don't think– Funnel cake is different than a funnel. A marketing funnel.

Fun- Fundamentals! These are the fundamentals of fun.

Ooh, that sounds fun.

We're starting with funnel cakes, and ending with funerals.

I have an I have an emotion of anticipation.

So, back to this quote, "What really exists is not things made, but in the making. Once made, they are dead." So, this podcast episode can only really exist here to us…

Oh yeah, that's where we were going.

…Yeah, and no one else can actually have it in its existence, but they can re-live it, like we looked at fun. They can re-live what happened here, but not really. That's already dead and past, just like the paintings on the wall and stuff.

So, I was just going to say, artwork, specifically paintings, are the perfect like example of that quote. Because the artist had an idea, which was part of the fun. They were planning it out.

Well, maybe fun, depending on what it was, if it was a commission or something. Planning out the artwork, making the artwork, and then now, that is so fascinating seeing it as something dead hanging on the wall. Like, there's actually something very poetic about that, where it's like it almost feels gross then going to a museum now, because not that it's made by people who have been dead for 100 10 100 years, whatever.

But that it has So, this is something that Walter Benjamin talks about in his piece, The Mechanical Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction, and it's about the aura of the artwork. So, the difference between seeing this reproduction on the wall right now is like drastically different than seeing it in person, because you're missing that aura.

You're missing the fine details of what make it have energy and life to it. So, it just it's a totally different experience. But then, now does it still have energy, because it is sort of a dead thing hanging on the wall?

Well, and do you want it when it's alive? As the philosopher, J.B.J. Said…

J.B.J.?

"I'm wanted on a steel horse I ride. I'm wanted dead or alive."

Mr. Jon Bon Jovi.

I'm like, "Did you just make up J.B.J.?"

I couldn't lead with Bon Jovi, you would have been like, "Ugh."

No, but like…

"Sir Jon B.J."

Jon B.J.

We don't want living art, then. We don't want…

No, because it's fucking wet and it'll drip all over the place.

And not even that, because even when it's still wet, it's that's already with this, it's done. It's not in the making anymore, they're not paint- Like, we don't We, sort of throughout history, don't commission an artist to be painting, and when they're done, we're like, "Okay, bye. Thank you." And then you're done, and everything leaves.

You commission the dead work that it's not their hand doing it, it's their hand having done it.

Yeah, it's almost like the proof. You have the receipt of the process.

That's weird to think of it like that, like a receipt of someone making art.

Yeah, you have a receipt of the process, which is very interesting. It's very weird.

Yeah, like I just I find that really fascinating. So, and this also is like it doesn't exist other than when it's being made. So, like this doesn't exist, because this is a moment.

Yeah.

The video exists. Don't wink at our listeners, or viewers. The video exists…

Yeah.

…because that's something else, but what the video represents doesn't exist anymore.

Correct. Like, this moment we are creating will be dead in the future, which is really weird. Like, not like bodily, but just the actual creation and the moment of it.

Our conversation about fun is already That's over.

Yeah, you already forgot about that.

It's not in the making anymore, so it no longer exists.

What?

Yeah, it's just…

That is a very interesting quote. So, now I do understand it a lot better, cause when you read it to me at first…

And now you- your now understands it, or your then? Because my now is your then, then, now, now, that?

My now understands it, because your then understood it. Ha! Ha!

It works! Ha! I got very excited.

You look like Beaker from The Muppets. Yeah, that is very interesting. Where did you find that quote, again?

That came from James Gleick and Time Travel.

Okay.

So, it's a book about the history of time travel. It was just one of the things that he said in it.

Oh man, time travel, then talking about this topic? Holy hell. Time travel is so mind-bendy.

I've been reading a lot more physics books lately, because it's something that I've always been…

Nerd!

I know, I'm a big fucking nerd.

But like also, when you say reading physics books, I feel like that gives–

Not like textbooks, but–

Yeah, gives the vision of a textbook, but this is–

Well, no, it's more like quantum physics and things.

You're not helping! She's not reading textbooks. She's reading very, very, very well-written books about these topics that are interesting, like I'm reading about the history of time travel and where it came from and how everything looks at it from fiction, and then also like science, which is interesting, but it's not like a textbook.

You're not reading a quantum physics textbook.

I would. Isn't that in Men in Black where he can tell how the little girl is an alien because she has like a physics textbook or something?

Maybe?

I think that was But it was like the training. He's like, "Well, he was just lifting weights, he was just doing whatever," and then…

I think she's just drove it all down in a second. What? Okay, good.

Who are you?

What?

Why am I in this lovely home? Yeah. Thanks for being on the show.

What?

Appreciate your time.

Could you imagine waking up like that, just in the middle of something? That was like in Well, spoiler alert, but in Severance.

What about it?

When she woke up, and she's like, "Oh my god, what is this?"

If you haven't watched Severance, you need to, it's very–

Yeah, I'm not going to spoil anything, but it was like, "What?"

It is funny, cause it's like when does a spoiler alert run its course?

Well, it's been out for years now.

It's been, yeah, but if you haven't watched Severance, highly recommend watching.

I hate when people spoil things when something's been out for like 50 years and it's like, "You had any time to watch it," but then they say the ending. And then I'm like, "Well, I was going to watch that eventually, I just haven't gotten to it." So…

Our priorities are the things that we do, not the things we say we're going to do. So, you have not prioritized watching that old movie, have you?

No, because I'm reading physics textbooks. No, but it is really fascinating, because it's something that I've always been interested in, but in school, it just sucks. Like, it's not A lot of teachers don't have the passion for it, which is fine, you don't need to, it's just a paycheck.

But I really think that people who are teaching should 100% have the passion for it, as much as you can, obviously, I know children are terrible. But it just If somebody doesn't have the passion for it, then you also don't have the passion for it, which kind of sucks. But anyway, I did love my physics class in high school.

I slurred a little bit. Physics, physics. See that?

Physics. I liked it, but I just It wouldn't quite click with me, because also it was the memorization, which we always talk about that we absolutely love. Cause you don't learn anything.

I was a pro at memorization.

I wasn't, I didn't care enough. I was just like, "Eh, I don't like that."

No, that was the thing. I didn't care, so I memorized exactly what I needed, and learned nothing.

I didn't. I wrote it on my shoes and then I cheated on my tests. It worked.

Well, that's like that. Well, I don't want to go on another tangent, cause I can't see the screen from here, but I think we're probably at about time.

29 minutes.

Yeah, we're at about time. So, I think we'll wrap here. Thanks for joining us here in Los An– basically Los Angeles.

I didn't cheat I should clarify, I didn't cheat on all my tests, it was just a few of them that…

I mean, I don't think there's any stipulation on time, so you can Okay, Call– Arizona Board of Education, feel free to contact me if you want to revoke her… What is it? High school diploma?

No! No! I earned it fair and square!

I had to pass that math class, because otherwise I wasn't going to graduate. And I had A's in all the other classes that ma- mattered.

Okay, Arizona Board of Education, she thinks physics is math!

You shut the fuck up, now! No! Because it was Pre-Calc!

I couldn't do it for science. No!

So, I think I think it's time.

So, you can…

I think it's time to… Hold on, hold on. Wait, let me just Okay, I think it's time to…

I'm being silent! No, because it was specifically Pre-Calc, because I didn't give a flying fuck about it. And I was like, "When am I ever going to use this?" To this day, never touched it, and I don't need to, which is the beauty of like I know, so then I was like, "Well, why am I wasting my time with this when I'd rather go have fun and do all the other shit that I actually want to do?" So, it was only in math class.

I need to clarify, it was only in math class. How can you cheat in science? It's like so complex and everything builds upon itself.

Anyway, the point being, I'm reading physics books right now, and I find it endlessly fascinating, so…

Endlessly fascinating?

Shut the fuck up! I'm quitting this podcast! Arizona Board of Education, shut the fuck up!

They're not You're not even in that screen. You got to lean in. There you are.

Hi, we're both here!

Okay, with that, I think we'll wrap. Thanks for tuning in, this is Useful Not Famous,

Don't tell me you never cheated on a test.

…the show about a show We don't need to go down the calculus rabbit hole. That's a whole other story with that, but it's fine.

Aha!

This is Useful Not Famous. If you enjoyed this show…

…and if you want to know how to write the answers on your shoes, give me a call!

If you enjoyed this show, share it, or something, or tweet it at us, or tweet it at us, Instagram at us.

Actually, join our MySpace, see if you're in our top 10. That's what we need to do.

Yeah, actually, what was it, Friendster? Is that something?

Hey, Grandma.

How old are you? Okay, I think we'll wrap here, but next week, we'll see, maybe we'll have something more useful. I think these conversations are a lot of fun, though.

Oh, I think they're very interesting, cause it expands your brain. And then next week, I'll teach everybody how to cheat on their tests, like a pro.

Bye.

Yolo. We're still here, I broke him.

I think my camera froze.

What?

I think my camera froze.

No, it didn't! Look!

Bye!