Worry has improved my life

Do your worrying before you place your bet, not after the wheel starts turning. Welcome back to Useful Not Famous. We've made careers being useful to people, so we want to help you do the same.

I'm Amara Andrew.

I'm Jeff Sarris.

And this week, I finally have a last name.

Good job.

So, yeah.

So, what is that? Say it one more time.

Do your worrying before you place your bet, not after the wheel starts turning. So, I read that. That's from a book called Psycho-Cybernetics.

It is probably one of the best books I've ever read in my entire life.

Which makes me so happy that it actually did hit that way.

I started reading it, and I was just like, "Ooh, I don't know how I feel about it," 'cause it is a little older, it's from the '60s, and it is a little bit more academically inclined, but I come from an academic background. But it actually, it completely deconstructed how I view myself and how I view everything, and it's been good.

It's been like, "Oh, that like isn't normal, or that isn't what I'm supposed to think?" I don't know.

And that you don't have to. So, basically, it reframes–

Yeah, I know I've been so nebulous.

No, no, no, but it reframes how you feel about yourself. I just realized you are so much lower in your frame. I am like way up here and you're down here.

I'm just eyelids.

But it reframes sort of how we think about ourselves, right?

Yeah, 100%. It's basically just it's how you, yeah, think about yourself, how you act in the world, and how essentially it's mindset without the BS and bullshit of mindset.

The BS and bullshit of mindset?

Yeah, I said BS and I was like, who is this? I censor myself in our other platforms, so. But it's all of the whole mindset space is full of charlatans, I will say.

Not exclusively, but the bulk of it, like 99% of it, because mindset is something that you can do for free and it's completely on your own, but people find a way to sort of bastardize it and sell it to other people. And it's not actually in a helpful, useful way. It's to be able to make money off of people and not help them get better, but make them worse.

And that's why we say mindset is what people talk about when they have no actionable advice, 'cause we want to be useful. It's easy to say, "No, just speak it into existence. Look at yourself in the mirror every morning and do your affirmations." And like that's easy.

It's also very easy to never get any results from that because it's a promise of something that's immeasurable. We can't measure that your mindset has improved your life.

But so we can always say, "Improve your mindset."

-huh.

So, it's easy to sell continuously forever and never actually get someone results, but they can always think it's their fault.

Exactly, it's like woo-woo kind of stuff. I'm not even going to go down that path 'cause a lot of our dear friends are very into it and that is perfect and that's fine, but there are just so many different things. So, anyway, this book actually looks at the science of your thoughts and more of a practical application to help you overcome why you think a certain way and how to not and how to be more constructive in your self-image and everything.

So, it's been incredibly difficult and some of the things I was like, "Nah." But then rereading it, I don't know, it's a really great book, so I got this quote from there.

Well, yeah, and it helps reaffirm that what we think is true.

Yes.

So, like, our– and not like truth with like internet and noise and anger and all these things, but our truth about ourselves. Like, I'm confident. If I– like, I'm not I'm not making a statement.

I'm like in my head, if I'm like, "I'm confident," then I am confident.

Exactly.

If I am self-conscious and I am someone who worries about what everyone else thinks about me, then I'm someone who worries and is self-conscious and, like, it is such a cyclical thing because we are our thoughts. It's all it is. Like our perception of things.

What's the one quote? "Nothing is neither good nor bad. Only thinking makes it true."

Yeah.

So, if we think it's bad, it's bad. If we think it's good, it's good. And there's no in-between.

There's like we are just making a binary decision and then running with it, and that's how we live in like operate in the world.

And it's the difference between a good day and a bad day. It's just how you view it. So, like you could spill your coffee, miss your bus, drop your laptop and crack the screen, but also in that same day, you got a beautiful haircut, you saw a cute little doggy, you picked a flower, you got free lunch.

Like, it's all how you view it. And typically, it's just– not typically, it is just a day. It's just how you're viewing all these things.

Like, typically, people say like, "Ugh, it just all happens at the same time." But really, it's just your viewpoint. Like, you're just noticing that all these things are happening in succession. But it goes the opposite way, too, like, "Oh, it all happens at the same time!

Like all these wonderful, amazing things!" And it is hard. I'm I'm making it sound so much simpler than it is where you're like, "If I just pick a flower, I'm going to be happy."

No, it's simple, not easy.

Yeah, exactly. It is a very simple idea where it's just like, "Oh, okay." Like if I find myself going down a more negative rabbit hole– we don't typically, but sometimes I do, and I always try to then flip it to, "Okay, why am I focusing on just these things when I should just be focusing on like the happy parts, like the good things that have actually happened so far today?"

I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said it, but it was, "People miss opportunity because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work."

Oh, yeah.

And it's just the perspective on it.

And like if we're looking at it like, "Oh, that'd be a lot of work." It's one thing. Like just talking about like making money and just sort of adjusting over there a little bit. Here, if you're like, "Oh, that's a lot of work.

I don't want to do that." Then you're like, "But why do you get all this opportunity? Nothing ever comes in my lap." And it's like, "No, literally, we saw the same thing, and that we– like you and that person saw the same thing, and that person was like, 'Oh, I can do that. Look at that!

That's crazy. That's so cool.'"

And that follows exactly this quote where that person who saw the opportunity has been silently, quietly studying or learning throughout this entire time, so they weren't they were —

Can you say it one more time?

Yeah, "Do your worrying before you place your bet, not after the wheel starts turning." So, they didn't wait until it was like, "Oh, well, this is an opportunity. Now I should learn what the hell this even means." They've been doing the worrying, quote unquote, meaning the learning and capturing the ideas. And then, just that frames how you view different opportunities and things that can come up, or you make your own opportunities.

Like, it made me think of Warren Buffett, also, where he will spend weeks, months, years– not even weeks– he'll spend literally years, maybe sometimes 10 years thinking about a decision if it's the right way to go before actually acting on it. And it's the exact same thing where you do all your worrying and your thinking through before, not like, "Well, I'm going to buy this company and just see what happens." 'Cause I feel like a lot of people who start businesses are just flying by the seat of seat of their pants.

And while that can work, because you do need to be quick with certain things, there are other things that you need to sort of think through before starting such endeavors.

Would you say "worry," in this sense, is pursuit, is taking actions? How would you frame the word the term "worry"? Because I think sometimes–

Yeah.

I think it's possible to think about that in very different ways.

So, yeah, what I was just saying is a very different interpretation of it 'cause I'm not thinking about– I guess it is sort of the worry that I was just saying. Like you worry through all the things like, "Well, what if I don't make money in the first month? What if I don't make money in the first 6 months?

What about the first year?" Like you work through that before instead of in real time when it's infinitely more stressful 'cause then you're just like trying to make your business work and trying to make money and especially for like an in-person business, like you really need to have, like, I mean for any business, really, you need to have everything sort of figured out a little bit ahead of time.

So, sorry, what was your question again?

Well, so, worry, I think I think that can be misconstrued a little, potentially, especially today context, not 1960 context,

Yeah.

Where maybe it's more problem-solving, troubleshooting. You're You're doing the Eminem thing. You're You're identifying and attacking all the potential pitfalls before your opponent, which is the market, the like actually being out in the world, hits them.

Yes. So, that was sort of how I read it, not literally worry, but just do all of your planning ahead of time. Maybe don't plan in the moment.

And granted, you will obviously need to plan in the moment and everything with things, like be flexible, but I guess not even having like a hard path, but having an idea. 'Cause it's like how we always talk about stepping stones where or not having a goal. Having sort of a framework of what you want to go for or attack, but obviously, things are going to shift and change tremendously throughout that.

But just at least having some sort of an idea of where you're headed before you're just like, "I'm just going to jump in and put all my money in this and tell my wife and kids goodbye. Like, they won't see me." Or you can do that if you want, but–

Well, and I think, so this, this goes hand in hand with just starting, also, and taking action, but it doesn't sound like it. So, starting, just flying by the seat of your pants and starting, is an approach, but when we want people to start, we want people to take the action and not just ruminate on their thoughts, part of the action is setting this foundation and taking these pursuing these stepping stones, the worry, the troubleshooting, the problem-solving to start.

So, you're moving towards the start, the launch of the business, but the first steps, this worry, troubleshooting, problem-solving, is starting. Like you've You've started already before you've basically turned the lights on and every minute those lights are on costing money.

Yes, which is crazy and terrifying.

Well, yeah, which is how every business functions that way to some degree. Different businesses function different. Like if it's a physical, manufacturing a product business, woo!

Like that makes me anxious. Like thinking about like, "Okay, let's line up the factory. Let's build this thing.

You know, actually, it should be like that. Let me– let's actually just make all these prototypes first." "Okay, well, that's going to cost some money. Okay, well, and we have to pay the people to make the Okay.

So, we have them now. Now, from here, what do we Okay, I like this one. So, what does it take to–" That is so much!

But if you're not taking those steps initially and you're just like, "Okay, buy my brand new blender! I invented a new blender. Like buy it now!" And then it's like you don't have anything lined up 'cause you didn't actually do all of the worry, all the pre-planning to get there, there's no way that's going to work and you're going to be burning through money.

And like retail, too. You turn on the lights without any marketing, without any like, "Hey, guys, this is coming! Get excited!

Like join me on this journey!" That's going to be rough. That's going to be tough because you're just every second that those lights are now on, you're paying for those seconds. And it just goes across the board in so many businesses.

It's why I like digital stuff because digital or service-based businesses, our service business, having the lights on is literal our home, our like our lifestyle, like living. But we're already paying for that anyway. It doesn't cost us something to be in business, but not every business can function that way.

So, going back a little bit, because you've started so many businesses, so many digital businesses, you've worked with so many different people, what would you say your ratio of worry to I forgot the word. I had a word. Would you ever say that you worry versus Like, worry to plan planfulness, planning planningness, plans?

What would be your ratio? Like, do you ever worry when you're working with someone before or do you just feel– That's what it was. I just I worked through it.

What is your ratio of working with someone, beforehand, the ratio of worry to not worry, like learning? 'Cause, okay. I'm asking you a question and I already know the fucking answer, but like you learn all the time.

Do you ever worry at the very beginning about anything when you're working with someone?

What do you want my answer to be?

Whatever you want it to be. No, I'm just curious because you're–

Like, 'cause you know the answer, so how about you walk through it?

I actually– I know the answer from my perspective, but you're very cool as a cucumber. You are very good with handling stress. You put on his cool cucumber shades coming out now at Useful Not Famous.

I know you emote that you don't worry, and I think that's because you're so prepared. So, like all of your businesses are a step from what you've already done or maybe two steps, sometimes. But it's all things that you already have skills and knowledge in and it's already the stuff that you're learning at the same time.

So, like you do all your worrying beforehand, if you have any worry, but you don't emote that, ever, which I find interesting 'cause even in the thick of it, you're just like, "Well, I'm just going to figure it out," or "Oh, that's a new opportunity." Like that's just how your brain works, so I find that interesting.

Well, it's the Psycho-Cybernetics. I know I will find the path through and that's not a an affirmation. I just know it and I know it because I always have.

And that's so crazy to me.

But I think it's just like think about writing a movie. I know we've talked about this, but I'm going to say it instead of for the show. But think about writing a movie.

And this is going to be a story about whatever. Whatever this is, the movie Titanic started at a point and it ended at a point. The historical ship of the Titanic did not start at that point of the movie and it did not end at that point of the movie.

The story's infinite. You We can go back to how did they even ever have a floating vessel? Well, then what led to even getting to the water to float?

Like, how far back do you want to go? But then, also, where do you want to go and say, "This is the end of the story"? So, in a movie, in a TV show, in a novel, you have to choose

Everyone dies. Oh god, that's actually very real.

You have to choose the start and end point. That is a given. We all know that.

Like, of course, the movie has to end somewhere. But in life, nothing ends. Like as long as we're alive and breathing, the story's still going.

So, like to me, I'm like, I'll always find my way through because if I find it through today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, or 10 years from, I'm going to find my way through because I am going to pursue it and make sure it happens. But I think it's easy to think about it differently. I don't fully understand thinking about it differently because I don't think that way.

Like I think because I think in sports. Like I grew up playing sports and I am going to do everything I can to win. There will be an end point in that, but I'm not deciding the end point.

The end point happens based on the rules of the sport. So, anything that I'm doing now, if I'm starting a new business, helping someone else do something, launching a service, doing whatever, there's nothing that There's no finish line that's defined for me, like, by the sport of business. So, I'm just going to keep going and it's going to work.

It's why Highway isn't out yet. And it's why what it's evolved into is crazy compared to what it Each iteration We could have launched and maybe we probably should have We probably should have launched an earlier version, "should" in air quotes, just depends on everyone's perspective, 'cause we could have. We could've launched months or even a year ago.

But what it's getting to now is a completely different version of our vision that's evolved through all of these worries, all of these approaching different limiting constraints into making something great and attacking those and then resolving them and finding more and then finding more.

Well, yeah, it's like viewing it as art versus a way to make money, because if we did want to make money like immediately, immediately, we would've already had it out, test running all these different things, but it is sort of more like an art project where, not in like the traditional sense of the word, but words, but it is yeah, just more like, "Well, there's more to figure out, and this isn't quite right yet." Like, this can't see the light of day yet.

It needs these final little touches.

Well, yeah, now it's everything we do to do our video marketing in a tool, so anyone can do video marketing. Like, and that's different than, "Here's what we do for clients and this a pseudo-client product." So, you're not our client, but we're giving you that. Now, it's sort of a soup to nuts version of it, which is so much more rich and robust for us as tools, but also for anyone who wants to build anything valuable and powerful.

But the question was, yeah, "Do I worry?" And I don't, just because we're going to get there. My only constraint is who I'm working with. So, will they want to get to where we can go?

That's always the biggest thing, and it's not a worry. It's just a I need to make an assessment. And assessments of humans are hard.

I think I brought it up on another episode, but the hardest, this was a from a brain researcher and scientist, the hardest things for our brain are other people. That's the thing that makes your brain sort of sharp and like keeps it always on edge and never complacent because other people are difficult across the board 'cause we all have our own truth and world in our head and we need to interact with that in other people without knowing what's going on in there.

So, the assessment of people I've gotten better at, but it's hard. So, it's it's taken a lot of trial and error 'cause most people are very emotive in what they say they're going to do. Like I'm blabbering away here.

Like I'm saying a lot of words, but none of what I'm saying is meaningful unless you actually see what I'm doing, unless I actually show it. With people, they're very good at talking. Most people can Surprisingly, so many people can sell really well and never sell anything of monetary value.

They're just good at selling themselves and having you believe in them, which is a skill. It's an amazing skill. But being able to see through the, "Oh, they're good at They're actually good at selling themselves, not the work," is something that I've run into enough times that I'm better at seeing it now.

So, I think that's the big thing. That's the like if there's a worry, it's more that. It's trying to assess and identify that before it gets to a point.

Again, like if I start something that's going to take a huge lump of my time, I don't want to later be like, "Oh, well, I should've seen this before and not wasted all this time."

Yeah, like that's part of your worry, quote unquote, now. So, yeah, I think just taking out the "worry" from that quote and just putting in "planning" or something. Like I think that is part of it.

There's a quote by Naval Ravikant, and it was oh, shit. It was essentially like you're either going to spend the time now or spend the time later.

Yeah, you either You have two choices in any endeavor, to do the hard thing now or do the hard thing later, but everything has a hard thing.

Yes.

So, do you take the easy path now for a hard path later, or the hard path now for an easy path later?

Yeah, which 100 times out of 100 times, I would take the hard path now because later on, the Like, thinking rationally about it, yes, and not instinctively, though.

You wouldn't say I instinctively do?

Oh, I mean as a human.

Oh, yeah.

Like just generally.

No, I was like we definitely do that.

Yeah, but generally, I mean, it's The easy path is how we're wired. So, everybody wants easy money. Everybody wants to not work.

Just flat out, I'm putting that out there. We're the only two fucking psychos where we actually like working. Like every time I talk to someone, it's like, "Oh, yeah, well, we're working," or "We're working," "We're doing this." And they're like, "Really?" But working isn't even remotely what can encapsulate what we do.

Like, it's not work. It is what we are doing. But anyway, I digress.

But doing the hard stuff up front is how you set yourself up for success later, because also, what is hard right now is hard, but not having a solid foundation in the future, it's like you're on a ship. Let's go back to the fucking Titanic. You put it together, it looks really nice, but you forget a couple screws, you forget to put in the sealant, like you I don't know how to build a fucking boat, okay?

You forget a propeller, and you're just like, "Well, we'll deal with that later. It's going to be fine." Then, your cute little ship runs into an iceberg. Well, now you're missing a propeller.

Now, you have a huge gash on the side. Now, you're missing all these things as you're out in the middle of the water because you didn't do the hard things first. You didn't put in two propellers.

You didn't make sure all the bolts were tightened.

Well, you didn't do what you needed to do to protect it from an iceberg.

Exactly, like–

That'd be hard.

Yeah, well, especially in the 1900s, it's difficult, but yeah.

Yeah, but it would be hard. So, then you had to deal with it later, and hard later became catastrophic.

Exactly. I lost my train of thought. Cho-choo!.

I lost it. It's okay. But essentially doing the harder things now, you do not have to do even harder things.

It was about us, like we are crazy and run towards the hard things.

Yes. Yeah, maybe it'll come back. Maybe not.

And, but yeah, just human nature, like a fight or flight sort of internal reaction would be to run from the hard thing and run towards the easy thing. But you tend to have better outcomes when you run towards the hard thing because then you don't have to deal with future hard things in the same way.

I also feel like if it's something hard and you're putting it off, you shouldn't be doing it, 'cause like the things that are hard that we're doing, I still want to do them, and I want to do the even harder things 'cause I don't know, maybe we're sado-masochists and we just enjoy pain.

I don't think that's true. Where do you get satisfaction?

From doing hard things.

Exactly.

It gives me dopamine.

Yeah, and I think that's universally true for everyone. It makes you feel like I made new connections, like not You don't think about connections in your brain, but you feel–

I'm like my brain connected.

Oh, there it is! It clicked.

My brain's not connected today.

But you feel there's a reward system for achieving hard things, and I think we all have that.

Yeah, it's just then I have to wonder why people don't want to do the hard things, then.

Why don't people want to work out?

Yeah, 'cause it's hard.

Yeah, and you don't have the reward system from starting to work out. You have the reward system from having worked out.

Well, yeah, it's like wanting the results without wanting the work. 'Cause like, well, you want a rocking bod, but go to the gym every day. It's like it feels good afterward, but in your head, you're like, "This fucking blows and this shit is heavy.

I don't want to be here."

Well, and that's the challenge. The reward system is only after you've done it.

Yeah.

So, the we're avoiding hard because hard is hard, but after you do hard, hard feels good.

I know. Even today, I was like, "I don't want to work out." But then I did a little bit and I felt better.

-huh.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I think that's all very important. So, if we have anything to leave you with, it's run towards what's hard.

Yes, 'cause otherwise, it's going to be way harder later and your ship's going to sink and then you're going to be one of the biggest tragedies in American history.

Iceberg right ahead! All right, well, I think with that, we'll wrap and next week, we'll see you from Miami.

Bye!