You'll never be world class unless you do this

Become the best in the world at what you do. Keep redefining what you do until this is true.

Hey Explorers, welcome back to The Useful Not Famous, nope. Welcome back to The Useful Not Famous.

Welcome back to The Useful Not Famous.

The show where we explore the topics we find most interesting and strive to be the most useful people you know. I'm Amara Tontai Andrew.

And I'm Jeff Sarris. And this has been, we're like five weeks, delayed. Time goes zoom, zoom, zoom.

Quite a hiatus. We have much to unpack and talk about.

There's so much.

But first, that quote was from The Almanack of Naval Ravikant, and it's a compilation of Naval's tweets. You put me on to it. It was compiled by Eric Jorgenson and Tim Ferriss.

Tell me one more time.

Oh yeah, Tim Ferriss wrote the foreword, but the Eric guy, compiled it all.

4-Hour Workweek.

That was a very niche joke.

Become the best in the world at what you do. Keep redefining what you do until this is true.

So, we have a really, really, really early episode of our podcast. It wasn't called The Useful Not Famous. I think it was maybe called What Is Made at that point.

Or was it Side Hustle Saturday?

So, it wasn't from then on,

Okay.

We've had many shows.

It was about the Iron Law of Stardom.

Oh, yeah, that was the What Is Made podcast.

And then, it might be like episode two or three. I feel like it's three. I have it in the back of my mind,

I was going to say three, also.

But this ties in to that idea. So, tell me what you think about this.

I have a lot to think about it. It, well, obviously I highlighted it because I thought it was something very interesting. So, I guess just unpacking what it means to be the best in the world at what you do.

And, obviously, there are always going to be people that are better than you or maybe not as good as you because we all have different skill sets and what we can apply. But, essentially, it's like, to make it cheesy, like just keep doing your best and keep getting better every day. But that is true.

Like, that's how people become successful, how they become something, is you put in your 10,000 hours, or your whatever. Like, 10,000 hours, obviously, not literally, it could be, but just putting in as much work and effort as possible as you can into trying to be the best at whatever it is that you do, then you become the greatest.

Well, and I think the important part, too, not to gloss over, is the keep changing that until it's true.

Yes.

So, like, you're still doing more, but you're adjusting. So, you said there's always going to be someone better than you and it's like world class is a like rarefied air of people. And

But then even dissecting why, how is that person performing better, and how can I get to that level, or what can I do different or like crank it up to a 1,000?

Well, and that's the thing, is like, you have to have people to compete with above you.

Yeah.

But then what happens when you're at the top? I know this, it's taking it down a little, like, side hustle. A little, a slight tangent, but I think it's interesting to think about.

We, we don't like having someone better than us.

Yes.

If you're competitive.

Well, yeah.

Yeah, we're, we're assuming competitiveness, that's who we are.

Well yeah, if you're listening to this podcast, your pod-, you're competitive just like us.

So, you need someone to strive to, like, make you better, but you have the world-class athletes, like a Michael Jordan, who didn't as much have the people above him that were better at a, by a certain point in his career. He was the pinnacle that everyone strove for, like the pinnacle of, "We're playing against Michael Jordan.

I don't perform as well because I'm thinking that I'm playing against Michael Jordan." Like it's not even that he stopped you from performing, but you're so caught up in he's way up here.

Yeah.

And there's the whole book, Relentless, that's about Jordan, and Kobe, and it's not a basketball book, but it's about being relentless and what it takes to strive for greatness, and it's they end up competing with themselves and making it harder on themselves to show that they can succeed even when everything's stacked against them, and Jordan didn't do this, but he had the flu, the really, really bad flu one game, and it's known now as the Flu Game because he played so amazingly well when he was deathly ill.

But it was a challenge for him because that was another like, "Ooh, this is a hurdle to get across."

And I think that's something interesting about having people getting in their head about playing Michael Jordan. Like, "Holy shit, I'm playing Michael Jordan." And instead, you should take that mental energy and put it before and just work. You can always work harder is my thought, and that's sort of how we live our lives, is, yes, you're working hard right now, but if you're saying that you're working hard right now, you're not working hard enough, because that's almost, that's giving yourself grace, but not helpfully, where you're

You have time to say you're working hard.

Exactly. And you had the moment to stop and be like, "Wow, I am a hard worker." Like, if you're actually working hard, you don't have the time. And I didn't, I never even thought of thinking like that until I heard somebody say it, like, "I work very hard." And I was like, "Oh." It caught me off guard and maybe it's just because I try to be very humble, which maybe that sounds ridiculous now in this context.

But it just, it caught me so off guard, 'cause I was like, if you are thinking that you're working hard, then you're also not enjoying what you're doing, because you shouldn't even think of it as work. It can be work, but if, I don't know, it feels like almost like you need the congratulations, the self-congratulations, so that you're just like, "Look at me, I'm a hard little worker, ta-da-da-da-da."

I think

And you should celebrate your wins. I'm not saying that you shouldn't, but if you're

I want to add just one thing to what you just said, was if you're thinking you work hard. I think thinking versus knowing is what we're talking about.

Yeah.

Like, we know that we work hard. We're not talking about that, 'cause that's not even, like, we're talking about it now because this is a meta conversation, but we don't talk about working hard. People tell us we work hard.

Yeah, exactly. I didn't even think about it until people were like, "Oh, you work really hard." And I was like, "I do?"

Well, you know, though. That, I feel like that's your, sort of self-deprecating like, "Oh, really?" Like, but you know it deep down.

But, like, I didn't even think about it, I guess is what I mean, where, that's what I meant, like, I know I do, 'cause like it's not by accident I'm working all day every day. But having somebody be like, "Oh, you work really hard." I was like, "Oh, I didn't even think about it. I was just doing the things that I really wanted to do." So,

Yeah, and I think that's the big difference is there's a quote from Pavel that I think is really fun. Pavel's the guy who brought the kettlebells to the US and like he's a, he's a Russian, yeah, a Russian

From Russia.

Sort of not bodybuilder, but strength builder. He's done this for decades. He like knows what it takes.

And this quote always got me, but he's just like, "If you're wondering if you are strong, you're not." Because, like, you don't, you don't wonder like, "Oh, if I can lift this, does that make me strong?" You lift it.

Exactly.

If you're wondering about it, keep going because you're not there yet, because you're still curious like, "What's the threshold where I can say I'm strong?"

And it's along the lines, like along that same principle, this extends to everything in your life. If it's like, "Oh, okay, well I can, yeah, I can lift this 25-lb weight or whatever, like super easily." Yeah, I must be strong or I must be building muscle. No, you keep increasing your weight so that it's heavier and heavier, so then you're just, you're building muscle.

Like, you're not thinking, "Oh, I'm building muscle." It's, I don't know, I'm not making sense right now, but

No, you're competing with yourself.

Yeah, and I find that to be so much more fun than not, 'cause if you're competing with other people, that isn't even remotely the same thing. But if you're competing with yourself and trying to make yourself better and better every day, I think that's the most worthy opponent that you could have, and you just, you feel so much better when you beat yourself versus beating anybody else.

Beat yourself.

No, I'm just

If you're a guy.

It's so hard because I know there's people who aren't competitive, who want results. Like, like people desperately want results. Like more, almost, you could say, the bulk of people want results, but don't want the work.

Where I feel like there's a select group who the work is the result. Like, you get the thing because of all the hard work, and the hard work is what makes you satisfied.

It's a similar type of person who only wants the score of the game, but doesn't want to see the entire game and see.

That drives me nuts. That drives me nuts, but I can't understand that at all.

Exactly, because don't you want to see exactly how you got there and what happened, because that's, that's the whole point of it. It's not the end score, that's the destination, that's just the byproduct of either playing a really good game or maybe needing to refine your strategy a little bit. As a Bears fan, Jeff, you know that, I said your name, that felt weird.

I know, you don't say each other's names.

I don't know, I'm

You, you as a Bears fan.

You know that all too well.

Well, yeah, I mean, the team has been very bad for most of my life, but it's I'm there to watch it, and I want them to win.

Exactly.

That's the only thing I watch, the only sport, the only like, sort of the only pure entertainment.

I'm just like in it. But this season, or, and we have a coach,

-huh.

But, like, it's about the entire journey of it. So, you're not just there to be like, "Oh, okay, well, I hope they won." Like

That doesn't matter as much.

That doesn't matter as much. They lost last night, we're recording this Monday, the day we're going to post it, they lost last night to the 49ers in what might be the greatest game of the last decade, if not like, all time. Like, I know that's a huge leap, 'cause so many great games, but that was a, like, an offensive struggle back and forth every single drive that was insane.

Aha!

Like, it's so crazy how that whole game went. It's the first time in regular season history that the score has been tied 7-7, 14-14, 21-21, 28-28, and then 35-35. It was just a boxing match.

That's wild.

Back and forth the whole time.

Yeah.

But, anyway, it's, there's the, there are the different parts of being competitive and there's people who aren't, and that's fine.

Everyone has their own thing. I don't understand that, like, not being competitive, and that's why we get along 'cause we're very similarly competitive.

And it's asking the wrong questions, too, like, "Oh, what's the score?", not, "Well, what happened throughout the game?" Like, this just makes me think of what I just read in my, Buddhism book this morning. The little parable of, I'll just recap it super briefly, but this guy, so Buddha, you've heard of him?

Also, doesn't have to be briefly. We're here to talk.

No, I know, but I don't want it to drone on and on. So Buddha, this is like very early days, obviously. Buddha is sitting with his disciples, and one of the disciples goes up to Buddha, and he's like, "Hey, I am following you,"

Sup, dog!

"What's up, man?" Like your, like your duds. No, nobody says "duds." But he goes up to Buddha, and he says, "Hey, like I've been following you for a while, but you still haven't answered these 10 questions." And it's like the questions of life, like, "Does life exist? Is there an afterlife?

Is there not? Is there a reason for all this? Is there not?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Then Buddha goes, "Okay, well I have a story for you. There's a man in the forest, and he gets shot with an arrow, and all of the townspeople and the doctors come and rush and try to pull the arrow out of him. But the guy who got shot goes, 'Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what did the guy look like who shot me with the arrow?

What does the arrow look like? What kind of bowstrings were used?'" And Buddha is making a point that if you get shot with an arrow, you're not asking all these ridiculous questions, you're just like, "Just get it out of me. I don't care." So, you're focusing on the wrong questions in life, if you're asking all these different things.

And, obviously, this ties to Buddhism and having just a, a better life, and a happier life, and living actually a way that's more constructive for you now without focusing on things that maybe don't even matter, as much. 'Cause if you're focused on the right things, and the things that matter, you wouldn't be worried about all these other ancillary questions, because that's just a natural byproduct.

So, it's like to tie it back to the original quote, too, focusing on becoming the best in the world, whatever that means to you, is so much more beneficial and helpful than focusing on all these other questions that might arise at the time that sort of lead you astray, and maybe don't help you as much in becoming the best in whatever it is that you can be.

And the "what it is" doesn't matter.

Yeah.

That's the thing. It's not "become the best at X." It's like just strive to be the best that you can be. And I think the important part there is the changing,

Because, I mean, say like you went to school for art history.

If today, every day since school, you've been striving to be the best art historian, you wouldn't be actually fulfilling what you need inside,

Yeah.

Because that changes, like we change with time. Everything changes.

There was, I don't know if I had it saved, we talked about it, and I felt like it was on here, but I know it wasn't, because it was, it's been a bit since we recorded, but how I wish I could remember where it was from, but life is today.

We're born in the morning, and we die at night. This is all that we have. And there's something about, like, thinking about it that way that how can we waste the entire life?

Our entire life is right now. Like, it's, it somehow changes, at least it changed how I was thinking about things in the moment.

I thought that was like a really beautiful idea.

Yeah, there is no

'Cause you're not, you're never guaranteed tomorrow. All you have is literally right now. So, what are you doing right now that either brings you joy, or makes you feel better, or helps get you to where you want to be instead of instead of the wanting to be elsewhere, like how you were saying before, where it's like, "Well, I want the results, but I don't want to do the hard work." It's impossible.

It's physically impossible to have that. You have to do all the hard work. So, figure out, "Okay, well, what things can I do right now to set me up in the future?

Not even a year from now, not even three years from now, not even five years from now, but 10 years down the road where I'll be like, 'I'm so glad I did this. I'm so glad I started this.'" Like this podcast, we don't have a ton of listeners, but it's something that we just enjoy doing, even though we took a little bit of time off.

But it's a way for us to sort of talk through our ideas and reformulate things for us and then we're just recording it.

And have it down like on the record, because we don't have anything on the record, 'cause we make everything for everyone else.

Yeah.

So, it's nice to have it. But,

Sorry.

No, no, no, yeah, what was

But yeah, just the idea of like, you only have today. That's it.

Yeah, and I think that's really powerful because it's not even, is what I'm like I would only push back, it's not even as what I'm doing today going to set me up for 10 years from now, but am I making the most of today in the way that matters most to me?

Right.

And, for me, like, me, myself, on this microphone, that is improving or creating something. Like, we had Christmas just happened, and the whole week, which is really rare, like, for either of us, but, like, really for me, just because of how I sort of operate, I didn't, like, make or, like, do or, like, accomplish anything for the whole week, basically.

Like, there's things that I've, like there's an email that I've been working on that's a big,

It's a big email.

Yeah, it's a big, like, sort of educational, this is why this is happening, performance, blah, blah, blah. So, I've worked on that a couple times since last week, but I haven't completed anything, and that just, like, wears at me, just with how I'm wired. Every day, I like to achieve something.

And it does it's not just like, "I answered all my emails." Like, that's not anything. That's There's no satisfaction. Like, I will answer all of them,

Well, yeah, that's a byproduct of what you do are the emails. That isn't the end result or the end goal.

Yeah, it's the creativity. It's like, every everyone is an artist. Not a capital A artist, as in like, "I have a paintbrush and I paint." Like, and we've talked about it a lot.

I never know if it's on the podcast or separately, 'cause we have these conversations all the time.

This is literally how we talk. I realized

It's just slightly different.

Just sometimes we sit down and put our cameras out.

Yeah, it's a little more exposition? Is that the word? I don't even know.

Well, it's a little more formulated, I guess.

Yeah, we're not like, just talking. We're, sort of, your turn, my turn.

I have way less expletives on this, I'll say.

Oh, no, what was I just going to say?

You don't remember if it was on the podcast or if it was us talking.

What did I say right before that? Oh, no!

Roll the tape!

There's no tape to roll, it's live!

We were saying, oh, shit.

I hate when this happens! I hate when this happens on other podcasts that I listen to.

I feel like it doesn't happen much on here. Like, we're normally, like, on the rails. I think there's too many things.

Okay, so

Oh, taking time off. You like to accomplish things.

Yeah, so the satisfaction of

Answering emails, you were writing an email, performance email.

Yeah, an email isn't satisfying, what is, I like to achieve something.

So, if you don't accomplish something for a while, you don't feel good.

Yeah.

I actually have the opposite feeling.

Really?

-huh. I actually I feel good having the last few days off, because I think I feel like I accomplished something every day, because we had my dad in from out of town, and I had everything, like, planned out. I booked everything.

Like, I'm I'm the planner extraordinaire, and then, like, planning like the meals and all the things. I feel like I accomplished something because I did all that, even though it wasn't work-related. I think it This sounds so stupid, but it filled my soul in a different way, even though it was a lot going on and maybe a little frustrating at times.

But that gave me satisfaction. Now, I didn't push my goals or anything forward for the next 10 years or whatever, but I do feel good, and I feel like I was able to slow my brain down a little bit, which is actually really helpful for me. So, I didn't accomplish things in the way that I typically do, but I actually think I'm able to think clearer now by taking that little break.

It's like when we went to Miami in May, when I was just like so not myself. That really helped just sort of shift everything for me and helped my brain, I don't know, I'm enjoying taking little breaks here and there, but then now today, I'm I mean, we're recording our podcast. I'm ready to do 700 things, because I just I feel so energized from it.

-. And I did remember.

Okay, good.

I know, it was hard, 'cause I'm like, "Okay, I know what I'm saying." So, capital A art,

Yes, there you go.

Artist. So, that was the thing. I don't mean to, like, take you away from that, but I just wanted to say the one thing.

The I We've had this conversation a lot, but in my opinion, and it helps that I'm like I'm sort of describing us, but in my opinion, the most creative, the most the most creative artists, period, almost no one would call an artist, because we think of capital A art as someone who paints, they write, they draw, they do all of these things.

But their creativity is very narrow, and this is not to take away from the I'm saying capital A artist because you Generally

'Cause if you say artist, I would only think Picasso, like paintbrush art.

Yeah, you don't Yeah, you don't necessarily think Elon Musk,

Like when I say if I would say artist. But, arguably, he is phenomenally more creative than any narrow artist. Like if someone is a painter, an illustrator, they're very creative in what they do, but have they And I'm not saying across the board, but when someone is telling themselves, "I'm an artist, I need to X," they're satisfying this identity of being an artist, but I don't think you're an artist until you're able to creatively do what you want to do and get the outcomes you need to survive.

So, like the artists we know survived. They Everyone has to make money. Everyone has to eat and sleep somewhere and, like, you need the things that you need.

Who does that the best are generally the most creative people, like the best artists, the artistry of what they do,

I would say, is better than narrow capital A art, more powerful, I guess, or, it helps more.

-. Well, yeah, as somebody who has studied art for a long time, the more I'm out in sort of like the real world, or not just in the art world, like 'cause I was only ever around artists, capital A artists, so like musicians and visual, all the arts that you would think of, like performing, visual, whatever the fuck else!

All those types of arts. Now, being in the real world, though, and meeting so many different people, I think everybody, like everybody, truly everybody on this planet is creative and is an artist, but like you said, it's very different types of arts. So, like, my Uncle Jim would always say this, and he was a Harvard professor, so nuts beyond belief, but he was very, very smart, and he said that there were different types of genius, and that's always stuck with me.

Like, there are people who are social geniuses. So, those are people who can talk to anybody in the world, and granted, these are all skill sets that you can learn, but like some people have sort of a natural proclivity toward certain things, where they just work really hard on making it so. There are social geniuses.

So, these are people that are really good at talking to people and making them feel seen, feel heard, and buy your product! So, these could be salespeople, or these could be therapists, or it could be whatever, but that's more of the social genius. And then there is the analytical genius.

I'm not going to go through all the geniuses, but there are a few different types. And so, like, Elon Musk, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a genius. Whatever you think or feel about him, like you cannot argue that.

Like, he is an artist with everything he's created, hands down. And we all have that in us, it's just finding Maybe that's what burnout is, is it's not playing into your genius, or what sort of art you should be creating, and it's going for what you see as sort of the easy route to make money, which, spoiler alert, there is none.

And if somebody's selling you that, they are That is what they're selling you and you're buying their product and you're making them wealthy, not yourself. There is no way, there's no easy way to make money. I forgot where I was going with that.

So, you should. You're not You're doing the thing you think you should be doing, rather than the thing that actually satisfies your innate

Oh, burnout!

I'm I'm saying character, but that's not the right word, but your makeup of who you are.

Yeah, you're fighting against it.

Yeah, that's the thing that has you feel satisfied. Like, if you're doing something you love, you can't burn out. It's like, by definition, you just can't burn out of fulfilling your internal needs.

There's no way to burn out on doing that.

Yeah, like I've learned in this past, like, month or so, I really love performing on camera. No matter what it is, like I like sharing things with people, and building that, and like teaching people things. Like, I very much enjoy that, I've learned, versus maybe some other things that I've done or have been doing that don't fulfill me as much.

So, instead of trying to work against that, I need to work into it, and play into it, and build that up even more. That leaves me feeling so fulfilled, more than I think anything I've done very recently. Oh, sorry.

No, that's fine.

I thought you were going to say something. Are you not sorry? But just finding those different things, like your what you love to do is help people with strategy and building their businesses.

Like, that gets you so excited. And as soon as somebody as soon as somebody is talking about, "Oh, I want to do this." You're like, "Tell me more. What do you want to do?

Blah, blah, blah." You, like, levitate in your chair, and I love watching that. And it's always so funny when I know somebody's going to say something like that, you're like, "Go on," 'cause you're just I don't know, that's that's your art, is building things that make money for people or just building businesses in general.

Problem solving, overall, that's the like, really, really like, first principles thing, is solving a problem.

Give me any problem, make it difficult, and that's

You love that.

But like, you said skills, like building skills, and I think that's the confusion when it comes to the capital A artist. It's like, "I'm not an artist because I can't paint." And it's like, do you know how someone learned how to paint? They painted.

It's only a skill. There is no one inherently is a painter. No one inherently is a singer.

They might have an easier On our ears, their voice might sound better naturally, like maybe just how they speak there might be a musicality to it, but they weren't born a singer. It's a skill that they've refined over time, and you saying sort of like going to the thing that satisfies you, and like doing that, it's could be better to have a newer reference.

So, like, the person who I heard say this, they used Usain Bolt, who was the fastest man alive. He, like, in the Olympics, like, he just was so much better than everyone else. And they're like, genetically, there's at least one, if not dozens, hundreds, or thousands of people who were exactly genetically predisposed to be as fast, or faster, than Usain Bolt.

But he worked at it.

Exactly.

So, there's someone sitting on their couch watching him in the Olympics, eating Doritos and donuts, weighing way too much, no muscle, like, they've never refined any of this. But if they did, they would have been If they did what he did, their genetically predisposed to be that.

And I think that's the, like, odd thing. It's hard to sort of comprehend.

Well, and we just watched the Taylor Swift documentary that's been out for 100 years.

It's

Miss Americana.

Yeah, Miss Americana. It's on Netflix from 2020.

Which you had watched it before. Yeah, it's on Netflix, 2020 is when it came out and we're finally watching it almost in 2026. Or, me.

You had already watched it. I found that so fascinating. Like, I mean, obviously, it wasn't fascinating for the ways that other people would find it fascinating, but I don't even know what I'm trying to say.

Okay, let me break it down. 'Cause like it's not the fame as much, it's the constantly working and improving. Like the one part that I really loved was Taylor was waiting to hear back from the Grammy Committee when they let you know, "Oh, you're going to be nominated for this," or blah, blah, blah.

And she gets the phone call and she's been very nervous, you can just like see it in her body language, and she gets the phone call and the person, which obviously this is a brilliant set up for the whole story, but she, Taylor hears from the person and she says, "You are not nominated for Album of the Year." I think that's what it was.

And Taylor was crushed, and she's being recorded, too, so obviously you feel the pressure of like,.

I think it was her own phone, though. So, it wasn't like a It wasn't the film.

Yeah.

So, it felt like a real moment.

Yeah, but she heard that, and her first thing was like, "Okay, I need to make a better album." Whether that was performative or not, I love that thought process of like, "Okay, yeah, I didn't get to this point where people would actually be like, 'No, this was the Album of the Year,'" 'cause she had won it X many years before.

But something about that album didn't resonate with whatever or whoever. So, she's like, "Okay, it's the problem solving." It's like, "How do I fix it for next year, so then I can be, at least, nominated, whether or not you win, but be in that, like, select four people out of billions of people in the world to get nominated for that honor." So, I don't know, I just I really liked that drive.

I think, too, because lately I've been trying to think about what I've been what I am passionate about. 'Cause I love to work on things, like I love doing stuff and pushing things, and making things happen, and making them a reality. But to be fully honest, like I have felt a little lost, like, "Well, where do I want to go and what do I actually want to talk about?" 'Cause there are things I can talk about and teach people, this sounds bad, but I don't really care to.

Like, that's not what brings me joy and what I like to do, because then, also, what am I hoping is the outcome? Which, again, you can't do things for an objective, but it's just stuff that doesn't bring me joy, it makes me feel bad.

I think that's the thing, is if you're doing it with an outcome in mind, more than likely, that's not what you should be doing as in, like, the thing that fulfills you, because if there's any objective, that is one of the reasons, if not the lone reason, you're doing it,

And that becomes a problem. I think, also,

And that would be the lone reason, is to get more business, take more clients, and it's like, "Well, that's not the right thing then."

Well, and I think the challenging spot that you're in, is you have Just let me say it, I know you're going to be like, "No, no, no," but you've achieved world class in the things you're doing in a very specific way. Like,

I always have.

You've you've achieved it, though. You don't You can You can compete with yourself to get 1% better, 1/2% bet-, like, you can compete there, but that's no longer satisfying because the differing outcomes for getting 1% or 1/2% or 1/10 of a percent better than you are at these things doesn't change anything. It's not satisfying 'cause you're just you're getting this little tiny You're moving this little piece of sand and like, "Ooh, that's better." So, now it's like, what's the new problem to solve?

So, it's not as fun to be doing it as it was when you were new and it's like, "I'm doing this, I'm learning, I'm growing," but you get to a point that it's like, "Okay, now," like the quote at the beginning, "the changing, world class and keep changing until you are." Maybe it's also, "and change when you are." Like, you get to a point and you're you're like, "Well, I've done what I can here." Like, the Iron Law of Stardom, like, reinvention and all these things, which Taylor Swift's a great example of reinvention.

Like, truly.

But it's like, "I've done what I can here, but I want to do so much more." It's not that I need to attain or achieve more, it's just like, it made me feel good to get here, but I This is it. Now, if I go here, oh, there's like more that I can do.

I think I feel that with a lot of people we've talked to, like over the course of like the year, two years, whatever, people who are sort of operating in a business that maybe they don't need to anymore, or maybe it was exciting at one point, and now you need to sort of dip your toe in something else, and it's like the and this isn't throwing shade or anything, but it's like, it's the seeking of something new, when, in reality, the business is going to be very mundane, and it is going to be slow, and maybe not what you want, exactly.

And maybe the problem isn't with your business, maybe it's that you're doing the wrong business, or maybe that you need to evolve a little bit and figure out sort of what fulfills you, 'cause I think a lot of people are doing things with the objective of money, basically everybody is.

Yeah.

And I don't want to sound like retarded, but like you do need money, like that is base level 101, like you need money for things, but that shouldn't be the only thing that you're going for, necessarily. Like, you do need to do things that fulfill you, I think. So, I don't know, that's just speaking where I'm at.

Do you think?

I know.

But it is, it's I think that's the most important part.

Yeah, well, and it sounds so naive, because it's like, "Well, yeah, that sounds great and all, like live, love what you live." That was the college I went to, that was their slogan when I went there, it was "Love what you live." And, or, no, "Live what you love." Yeah, it was live, whatever the fuck!

It was

Made quite an impact. No, it was like, "Live your passion," or "Live what you love." And it's like, well, yeah, that sounds cool and all, but if I'm a ballet dancer, how am I going to make money? But it's like, you can actually make that work if you're smart, and if you're doing all the right things.

Like, I mean, not to tout my own horn, but people would literally,

Toot, toot!

I know this sounds so stupid, but like I went to school full-time, I worked almost full-time, and I interned part-time, and I commuted 4 hours each day into the city to go to school and to do my internship, and then I would come home, and then go to work, and then go to bed, and then wake up and do it all over again the next day.

And then you did work full-time, just not 'cause you said almost full-time, but, yeah.

Well, yeah, it wasn't like an actual full-time job, but I did work full-time.

So, I mean like, yeah, how you evolved, like after that then you worked full-time,

But, like, I'm talking about in the moment.

I worked full-time in addition to all these different things, and then people would literally be, and I would do my homework and, like, get everything done, and people would be like, "How are you so much better at Italian than me?" And it's like, "Well, what did you do this weekend? What were you doing?" They're like, they literally just told me, "Oh, I went to this party, and then I went and did this, and then I was just, like, sitting there twirling my hair." And I'm like, "Well, yeah, fuckface, like I didn't do that.

I worked very hard to get to this point, so I could be like, basically, fluent in entry level Italian!" But it was like, wanting to do those things and like, just trying to continuously improve. Like, I was the best in all my classes, because I worked very hard at it. It wasn't just an accident, like, "Oh, my god, I'm a genius." But people would literally ask me like, "How do you know all this?" And it's like, "Well, yeah, I work at it.

I don't show you, but I work at it very hard." So, I don't know, that just always irritates me when it's like, we can all do the same thing, we all have the same number of hours in the day, and yeah, you have different responsibilities that you need to do, but you can still make it work, it's just choosing not to, which everything is a choice.

Or what you want.

Exactly.

You just don't want it.

Exactly. Like, I wanted to know Italian because I had I wanted to be a spy.

Like

I wanted to be a spy. So, that's not going to happen anymore.

Wanted to.

And I've brought it up before, but Teller from Penn & Teller, that's his whole thing. Like, magic is just doing something, practicing something longer than anyone else thinks is reasonably possible.

Exactly.

And like their greatest tricks that people, their illusions, that people just don't understand, he's very honest that you just don't understand it because you didn't practice it for 10 years before you ever performed it.

And it's like, and I think that's like the bullet catch, like their one of their big things is Penn shoots Teller with a bullet, it breaks glass, and he catches it in his teeth.

That's so cool.

Now, is that real? Is it an illusion? Is Like, is he catching it in his teeth?

Probably not.

-huh.

But maybe.

Yeah.

Like, and that sounds naive, but there's so many things that they do that feel like magic, and like other illusionists and all these things, too. Sometimes, it's skill. Like, sometimes an immense amount of skill looks like magic, 'cause we can't imagine that someone has the skill.

Exactly.

Like Oz.

Yeah.

No, go ahead.

No, but like Oz Pearlman.

-huh.

Like, it looks like he can read people's minds. It feels like he can read their minds.

That is truly magic. Not that Penn & Teller aren't magic, but that is like scary magic.

Well, it feels more magical because he doesn't have props.

Exactly.

He has his brain and your brain and, somehow, it feels like he's reading it.

And you think your brain is a fortress, and then it's like, "Oh, god, I'm just a slack-jawed yokel."

Yeah, and then some things are misdirection and they're just purely illusions that other people do, and then there's things where he understands he can tell how you're thinking because he's worked for decades learning how people are thinking, and he can get to a point where it gives him enough data to then pull out the little bit more he needs to know what you're thinking.

Well, and like with Taylor Swift, I'm just going to keep bringing it up, because we just watched that.

Yeah, we just, yesterday.

Like, I know nothing about her. Never been a Swiftie. I like the bracelets, apparently, but I didn't even know that was a Swiftie thing.

Seeing the footage of her as a kid, like what, 8 or 10 years old, writing songs, and then people are like, "How did she come up with these songs? How does she do this?" Because she's literally been working at it for 10 years. Not like, "Oh, I'm going to do this and do this," but just

When you remember.

Literally doing it.

Like, when she had her first album, like the like sort of quote, I mean, like it was from an interview, they said like, "Oh, when did you write these songs?" And she was 14 years old, and she said, "Well, I've written over 150 songs."

That's what it was.

"And then, these are the best ones."

And it's like, yeah, you get all that practice in and you learn Excuse me. It's It's literally just the 10,000 hours and just working at something, the same thing, if it serves you for a very long time. And she hasn't stayed country like she started.

She's evolved into many different, or I guess, just one major genre, but many different styles and iterations of that one thing. So, I don't know, do with that whatever the fuck you will!

No, I think this was a good This was a long date, 'cause we haven't been We haven't been on the mic for

And another thing!

On the mic. But, yeah, we'll be we want to stick to it more, so. But there's so many things.

I don't want to say we're back, but we want to get back on schedule for recording, because this is, I don't know, I enjoy this.

We're back this week.

Oh, and we might be moving our, podcast.

Oh, yeah, the video version is probably going to go to your YouTube channel, 'cause that makes more sense.

Yeah, my personal YouTube channel. Yeah, so, Amara Andrew.

On YouTube.

But, yeah. Anyway, thanks for listening and watching.

Smelling.

Smelling. If something isn't fulfilling you right now, go smell something else. Bye!

See you next week.