Your leads won't become sales until you do this

Don't you laugh. Your leads won't turn into sales until you do this.

Welcome back to Useful Not Famous. It is the podcast for people who care more about making money and not about likes and subscribers. I'm Amara- I'm Amara, Sassy Pants Andrew.

With that,

And I'm Jeff Sarris. And this show's broken up into three parts. This show's broken up into three parts, 15 total minutes, each segment is five minutes.

We have why, how- why, what, and how.

Wow!

And wow.

First seven seconds.

So, yeah. The why is sort of the why for what we're talking about today. It's converting leads into sales and how you need to capture leads and how you need to nurture leads.

That's right, nurture those bitches.

Is it seven seconds?

It's all good.

And then the what is just a little bit about us, what we're up to this week. And then the how is the practical of how you can apply this specifically to your business today.

And stick around to the end, cuz what is it, Sarris?

Yeah, you actually wrote this. So, stick around until the end where we'll explain how we get 2,000 leads per month from a YouTube channel that gets around 300 views per video. And that's not clickbait.

It is true, and we will explain it at the end.

And it actually is legitimate. I can promise you that. So, let's get into the

This. So, the why. So, the why Oh, actually, hold on.

We have our little handy dandy timer that I am going to show in front of your camera. So, we have this little timer because each segment is 5 minutes. So, we put 5 minutes on the timer.

And good luck.

Good luck. Oh, god. Is this Saw?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10?

I don't know. But, okay, so 5 minutes. Now, why?

This is perfect. So, we're talking about marketing versus sales. So, there's a huge fundamental difference and something that we see a lot.

So, we work with, primarily, real estate professionals. We fly all over the country to film with realtors in their market.

That's what we do for the video side, but I've worked with every type of business. Exactly everyone. I counted.

Nice. Cool. Who was that, like five people?

Nice!

So, people in on my side of the content-making machine are confusing and conflating marketing versus sales, and there's a huge fundamental difference between the two. So-

Yeah, and what we do, I just want to say, I just wanted to say that what we do is called organic content marketing. It's not paid marketing. It's not ads.

It's organic.

I thought it was called MAVEN.

Yeah, man!

What is MAVEN.com?

Okay, so organic content marketing, so what we do is marketing. We draw in the leads, but go on.

No, I'm done for the rest of this podcast. Yes. Sorry, I'm wasting our 5 minutes.

So, marketing, yes. We focus on the organic content marketing, so that's getting people to follow you based on the merits of your actual content, not through any sort of trickery or anything else.

Well, not even the follow as much as the attention, the awareness.

Yes, and yeah, I guess not follow, but we're essentially, it's just about building a brand. Like, I'm beating around the bush, but that's all it is. But a brand outlives everything, by far.

Like, oh, my god. I could go down a whole tangent, which I know you can as well. We have a couple things, but that's what marketing is.

Like, we are helping you get in front of people, the right people, not just, "Well, I need 7 million views." What are you going to do with that? Nothing.

Yeah. So, organic content marketing, it's organically reaching people through content. And that's what That's the main thing of what That's the main thing that we do.

But today, we want to talk about the next step.

Which is sales.

Yeah, after- and yeah, actually, need to articulate that better because we didn't actually deliver on it. Sales versus marketing. Marketing is the awareness, how you get the leads.

But if you're conflating awareness with sales, that's a problem. Sales is what you do with the lead. And sales starts the moment they come in.

It's through nurturing. It's through various things that you can do to nurture them. So,

And it's hard to because the marketing is the fun part. It's where you get to send out little gift baskets and make fun videos and do all those things. But then the sales can be much more difficult if that isn't what you want to do.

It's kind of funny because it feels like people are one or two, like either more pro-marketing or more pro-sales.

Yeah, not even pro, but they're more inclined to do it naturally.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, not against it, but

Mi amigo.

Popular.

El gato es en mi pantalones.

Okay.

Okay, so just make sure that our cameras are still actually recording because that would be great.

Unbroke. It's like, we will save you. But anyways, so that's the difference between marketing and sales.

So, now let's talk about

Well, so basically, there's a couple different ways, and we're going to get into the how at the end, like how you can actually nurture your leads. But there's two real core ways that we want to talk about. One is Instagram DMs, like DMs in general, but we'll explain why Instagram, and email marketing.

So, explain a little bit about Instagram DMs and why right now is sort of an inflection point for it.

So, Instagram has just released, which we try to not do timely sort of stuff, especially on this podcast, but because it just happened and it is actually a really big deal, Instagram just released an update or like a they released the

I only wanted to say, I don't think it's as timely as this one is proof for why you need to pay attention to this is Instagram's paying attention to it.

Yeah. But typically we try to avoid the timely sort of stuff. Evergreen only, bitch.

But This is off the rails, I'm sorry. You had a perfect little vision and I'm just like

Oh god, we're almost done with our time.

No! So, Instagram released an update where they're going to be focusing primarily on DMs. So, DMs, direct messenger, in case Messenger,

Messengers.

Well, I guess we'll talk about this a little bit more later, but they realized

That's our 5 minutes already?

Wow, I'm just on a rampage, apparently. But, they realize that DMs is where they stand out from other social platforms and that's what people primarily use it for, which I do agree. Somebody that we actually work with is phenomenal with their DMs.

Like they sell in their DMs like no other. It's, honestly, magic and I wish they would sell that as a product because that seriously is where the magic is.

But that's what we're here for. Is like, this episode is about that. So, how do you get that magic from lead to sales and That was the big thing is like Instagram's big push in 2025 is DMs.

Yeah.

People use Instagram for DMs. They use text messages for messages. People don't really use TikTok, they don't use YouTube to DM a new friend.

That's not really what those platforms are. So, using Instagram for DMs, you can nurture your leads. So, you might get leads, you get attention.

People who are following you and engaging with your content. But then you're engaging with them. So, sort of the why of nurturing them through DMs is you people want to feel seen.

People want to feel like you understand them. And you can do that in a one-on-one setting. The crazy part is it's behind closed doors.

So, no one even knows you're doing it.

And that's what I was going to ask. Like, why is that more successful versus comments? Because commenting, you can respond to everybody, but it is different when it's a public thing.

It's It's like when we turn a camera on and somebody freezes immediately because it's just the psychological trigger of, "I'm on camera. I'm in public. Everybody can see it." But when you're behind closed doors, you're much more relaxed.

You may say things maybe you would never say in mixed company or like in front of a camera. Like, as soon as we turn off the camera, some people are like, "Hey, how's it going?" And like they just become their normal selves. So, it's very interesting.

Well, and comments are different. I put three more minutes on the timer because this is an important This is such an important thing to talk about.

Well, yeah. This is the foundation.

Yeah. So,

Maybe we need like five and a half minutes for this first part.

Here, I'll put it back on five total. So, we have five. So, this'll be 10.

Yeah, this'll be a much longer segment, but it's important.

Yes.

So, comments aren't Comments are post engagement.

Yeah.

Like, meaning like a physical social media post, you're engaging with it. You're not engage engaging with the human. You're referencing the post.

Like earlier,

Well, yeah, it's not like you're going to actually have a conversation in comments unless you're trying to fight someone. Or it's just such a It's not an actual conversation because you can converse back and forth a little bit, but it'll stop. Whereas, like in a DM, it's much more intimate, I guess, for lack of a better term.

Not like sexual intimacy, but just it is intimate because it's the one-on-one thing and it's presumably only the two of you reading it or whatever.

Well, and it goes back to sort of how do you Like sliding into the DMs.

-huh, but how do you have a good dinner party? You have less than four or fewer people.

Which that is our golden rule now for all conferences. Five or fewer people for me, in my opinion.

Yeah. Like I say four, you say five. But the only way you can have any real conversation is with no more than that many people because you can't actually converse and sort of a rule would have to be everyone's talking about the same thing.

It's one conversation amongst the table. If there's eight people, that's not happening. And sort of same idea now translating that into DMs is you're interacting with someone directly.

You're commenting on their asking about their dog. Asking about their this or engaging in different ways where they know you care. But the secret is also only do it if you care.

Like you're not This isn't a scheme. This isn't a tactic. But how did DMs Like how did DMs play in us?

Like our direct usage of it is how MAVEN started.

Yeah, MAVEN started literally with just two DMs. The first one I wrote to someone, I was still working at two universities. And I was an archivist and then an art history professor, but I sent two DMs.

The first one said, "Hi, you're literally the first person I'm reaching out to. I'm Amara and I do this, this, this, and this. Should we work together?

Or Would you like to work together?" Nothing. Cool. Fine.

Whatever. Second DM: "Hi, you're literally the second person I'm reaching out to. I'm Amara and I do this, this, this, and this.

Would you like to work together?" "Hell, yeah!" I got a response. Hell yeah, that was the response. I realized I did not pause dramatically.

What a ham.

But, yeah. So, that's nurturing. Like that's actually that's sales.

That's direct sales. That was cold outreach.

Yeah.

What we're talking about is warm outreach. Like these are leads. These are people who sort of raised their hand to follow, to engage with your stuff, so it they're warmer.

They're warmer to you to receive what you want to say.

Oh, yeah. People that follow you, engage with your content, comment, whatever it is, those definitely are people that you should reach out to, which I'm guilty. I don't do that as well, and that's something that I personally want to get better with, but that absolutely terrifies me.

Yeah, and the other thing is email.

I don't know why. It shouldn't, cuz like I don't care. Cuz really the only reason why you wouldn't do it is you're afraid of what people think, but like I genuinely don't care.

I just

We could unpack fear on an entire episode because that's a big

Is that what that smell is?

But, anywho.

Shall we move to our next section?

Well, I was just going to say the two things. We said DMs, that's the I almost want to say that's the 101 level, but in especially in real estate, people miss the actual like 400 level of lead nurturing.

Yes, which is

And that's using their website and email marketing.

Ugh, the fucking website for realtors. That will never stop irritating me.

Yeah, nobody uses I don't Like I literally like legitimately have not a single realtor that I've seen yet who uses their website effectively. And I say this as someone who's built very large platforms exclusively through the web.

You've built a shit ton of websites.

Yeah, large email marketing platforms, too, which will platforms that we use email marketing for explicitly. One that we get 2,000 new email subscribers, people who raise their hands and want to hear from us every single month. And we'll dive into that more in the how section cuz that'll be more of the practical, but email marketing and DMs, that's sales.

Sales happens there. Creating videos, creating written posts, like all these things you're doing to sort of on social media, they're fun, they're satisfying, but that's marketing, and don't confuse marketing with sales.

Yes, two very, very different approaches. So,

Yeah.

What?

Well, I mean we actually didn't hit our second five. We're almost there, but I'm going to click it.

He cheated!

Hey, we were seconds away. But, okay, so we set the timer again for 5 minutes. Okay.

I love that we have a 25-minute 15-minute podcast.

Oh, it's how it works.

Every week.

Also, if anyone is watching, this is an audio-first podcast. However, I have said, we have said that this is a zero-effort video, but we couldn't help ourselves. It's We've upgraded a little bit.

We have a couple cameras we threw up. So, now it doesn't look stupid. We just can't have it not look good.

Well, you have to start. Like if you don't just Like I just wanted us to get in the rhythm of doing it and it was like I don't care. Like it could look like a dumpster fire, and at least we're staying consistent.

So, now obviously, yes, we can't help ourselves, so then it's like, "All right. Well, let's just like bring in the cameras." And then next time we're going to have flamingos, and then it's just going to be a whole thing.

Oh, the flamingos.

Yeah, they're on the way.

So, I was going to say when we travel, it'll be like what we were doing, but now that I'm think We bring these cameras with us.

We will have our cameras.

The only thing, we'll have one

So, we'll just hold it the whole time.

Yeah, I'll just hold yours because I want mine to be like rock solid because I matter.

Wow. Okay, Jeselnik. Jesus.

That was the most Jeselnik- Anthony Jeselnik, in case you don't know who that is, he's a comedian, one of my favorites, and you seemed just like him.

Thank you. That is a big compliment. But, yeah, so we'll have to figure out the second tripod.

But, okay, so yeah, the what section is a little bit about us this week, what we've been up to. So, we are We, obviously, travel, not obviously. If you're new here, we travel all over the country to film with realtors in their market.

We do organic content marketing. What?

Yeah, we also do small businesses as well. Like primarily real estate has just become our niche, but we do work with small businesses, and

Also, pop quiz: Nitch or niche?

I say niche because I'm not a heathen. That's how you're supposed to say it.

Son of a nitch. Okay, continue.

Niche. You know me, I say croissant. I'm obnoxious.

When you don't have an aunt, you have an aunt.

There's a U in there. Duh.

Anyway.

Anyways. He knows how to push my fucking buttons. Okay, so this week, though, we started Don't do that look.

We filmed this week with our brand new top banana, who is somebody that works here, works here, who is here in Chicago where we live. They're a plumbing company, which is very exciting because A, it's not only exciting because it's someone outside of real estate, but then it's also exciting because they're a new top banana, which it's exciting for the content because it's very similar to what we do with people, but also incredibly different than what we do.

Yeah, the same like the what is exactly the same. It's organic content marketing meant to bring in leads.

Yes, so the way that we film with real estate professionals is it's a very specific type of content we do. So, it's not only to show So, MAVEN literally means expert. So, we want to show A MAVEN is an expert.

Yes.

A MAVEN, A Mara. A Jeff. Amy.

Amy!

Anyway, so a MAVEN is an expert. So, we want to show that people are experts in their field. So, in this case, it's real estate because of what I'm talking about right now.

I lost my train of thought. So, we do content that shows, "Oh, they're in real estate. They know exactly what they're talking about.

They know how to save me $10,000 in closing costs," or, "They know the three things I need to do before I sell my house." Like all those different things where it's advice to the person. And then we also do local hidden gem content because you need to have a reason for people to go to your profile. If you did just all tips and tricks like that, it's extremely boring.

Like, I'm going to be the first one to admit it, where it's just like, "Yeah, yeah, I know you can help me with a down payment." But, instead, then what we started doing is including the local hidden gem content because that's still evergreen in a way, even though businesses will come and go, but you can showcase things in your area.

So, like if you showcase a park, that's hopefully going to be pretty evergreen in your area. Shouldn't be going anytime soon. But, showcasing that stuff mixed in with the expertise, that gives people a reason to not only go to your profile, but then also show, "Oh, they're a realtor.

Like, I'm going to remember that." Because so many people, unfortunately, I'm going to go on a rant, they're focused on only doing local content, which A, can be very evergreen, especially doing it the news style that some people do, which is fine. Like, it works and that's amazing. Keep doing it.

News style is not evergreen, however.

Exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah, news style is not evergreen and that's fine.

Like, keep doing it. That's amazing. But, you will probably burn yourself out just knowing how content goes.

Time.

And you're not providing long-term value with evergreen content. So, as soon as that's out of the media cycle, you have to keep feeding it. Like, I had a podcast that was a news podcast where I would talk about news stories in the art field every single week.

It's very exhausting trying to find those new things and you have to work very hard to find that, whereas evergreen concepts, you can talk about repeatedly, and that video, we call it the 24/7 open house effect, but essentially that video will live forever and it will keep providing value to people because it's an evergreen concept.

Like, how do you save $10,000? People have wanted to know that since the beginning of time when $10,000 was $7 million. Worth that much.

You know what I mean?

They save money. Save money, people always want that.

Exactly, so that kind of a concept or what's a down payment. Like, that's going to be the same thing over and over and over and over again. It's not going to be like, " I danced in the hallway and got 7 million views," but it's very important for the people who are You're like, "You need to stop."

No, I just wanted to like sort of I wanted to tie that in. Like it's organic content marketing. I keep saying that because nobody seems to understand what that means.

No.

And, basically, these are ways that realtors are useful.

Yes.

Like, our this whole show is called Useful Not Famous. The point is someone's a new home buyer or seller. In their like, "How do I sell my house?" Well, if you're in Buffalo, New York, and you're looking to sell your house, we want you to find Michelle.

That's the whole point. I don't care if you're in San Francisco or I was going to say Frisco, Texas, that's why I changed it to San Francisco. I'm like, "Is it Frisco?" I don't know.

Just like random city USA. We don't want you to find Michelle because if you do, then it's wrong. You're the wrong customer.

You're the wrong client. Customer's bad for real estate. But we want to target the right people in the right location and make her make them see how useful she is.

And this is how it works for everyone. A plumber as well.

Exactly.

How useful can the plumber be? Well, the plumber will solve my plumbing problems, but I need to trust them. Oh, they taught me actually how I can shut my water off.

Like, I have water everywhere in my basement right now. What do I do? Oh, I can shut the water off.

This is what I look for. This is how I turn it off. Okay, great.

Oh, they actually do all this other stuff. They explained what rotting pipe is and blah, whatever it is. Okay, they clearly do this all the time.

Let me call them because they also were in my neighborhood, in my market. All of this is organic content marketing, and no one's going to be famous on this on this stuff that's effective like this. I lost I lost where the all this stuff.

Squeak.

I didn't come out right.

But, yeah. So, that's what we did this week is more of exactly what we already do, but with a different client, which is always fun.

Yes. Yeah, just focused more on the mitigation and prevention with them, but, yes, it was very fun.

Yeah.

And do you want to talk about

I'll save that for next time.

Okay.

Because, yeah, our what section is already over, but I will set this timer for another 5 minutes, so this is the final segment today.

And then we'll ignore it and go for 20 more.

Yeah, I know. So, this is the how section. So, what we're ta talking about is how do you convert leads into sales?

And at the core, foundation of converting leads into sales, we have funnels. So, what is a funnel? Like you need to capture a lead.

So, someone comes in. They're interested in what you have. You need or what you have on offer, who you are, whatever it is.

You need a way to actually capture them, and

I feel like I'm just waiting for you to make a joke about capturing someone and like tying them up. So, I think that's why I keep stumbling.

No me. I never make jokes. I'm the most serious person you've ever met.

Bring in the flamingos.

Oh, god.

But, you need to capture them in some in some way, and either that's they follow you, they give you their email address. So, how do you do that? Let's specifically talk about the website.

So, that's the thing that's the most powerful. This is like 400 level, I would say,

Yeah.

Versus 100 level. Like 101 is DMs. Like people follow, you can message them, make them feel seen, heard,

Well, and like video content, I would argue, also is 101.

Well, we're talking sales, not marketing.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So, yeah, what you do with the leads and how you use the funnel.

I pay attention sometimes. What's your phrase when you do this?

Noogies.

Oh, that's one of them. I thought the other one.

What other one?

Like a fuck?

Oh. I haven't done that in forever.

We have so many like inside jokes that no one will ever understand.

She's smart now.

However,

So, sales.

Yeah, so how do we how do we set up a funnel? So, a funnel in like in Instagram is harder. Like it's you can do the one-on-one nurturing, which is amazing, but again, that's one-to-one.

That's very time intensive.

Yeah, and you're you're really nurturing individual leads, where email marketing is one-to-many, and these the many are the many people who raise their hand to say, "I want more." So, it all starts with what for whom. Like we've talked about this before, this is our main thing, like what do I have on offer and who is it for?

For whom? The Bell Tolls.

Yes!

Haha.

So in real estate, specifically, you need to figure out who you're trying to reach. It's probably people in your market. It should be people in your market.

I say probably and because a lot of realtors sell to realtors. They want them in their downline. They want them to buy their courses, their events, whatever, and that's a different thing.

Or some people have both in their feed, which is extremely confusing.

Well, that's when, yeah, they don't understand because they haven't decided for whom. Like what for whom, that needs to be answered before everything. So, if it's clients, buyers, and sellers, now, okay.

So, now the strategy for the website is buyers and sellers. Like that's who we want to target. So, now, how do you get someone to give you their email address?

You steal it from

Yeah, like all the real estate events where then they'll email you their local updates for their market.

Side note, I'm sorry, but if you're running an event, don't steal people's email addresses. They will mark you as spam. It hurts you, and it hurts your email, and hopefully it shuts down your

Well, no. Well, yeah, and it's not stealing them, but if you acquire email addresses,

They didn't sign up for that shit.

If you acquire email addresses running an event, that isn't someone saying, "I want to hear about Frisco, Texas real estate."

Yeah.

Like, that's not it at all, and you're You are actively hurting your email deliverability. Like you don't want people marking you as spam. You don't want people not opening your messages.

All these things matter. Like this is the arena I've been in for 16 years, and I've built huge platforms. These things matter more than what you're doing, just flat out.

You're doing it wrong and you're hurting yourself.

And here's why.

But basically, how do you get someone's email address? So, the website, what for whom, so what are you doing on the website? What are you delivering?

You're delivering local content that's useful to them. If you're a realtor, if you're not a realtor, it'll be a little different, which I could I'll I'll pivot right now. Okay, so we have a YouTube channel that gets around 300 views per video.

That platform gets 2,000 email subscribers a month. The website gets 20,000 visits per month. 10% of the people who go there give us their email address.

That's unheard of.

And why?

Yeah, it's unheard of for 10% of visitors to give you their email address, but it's because the website is extremely useful.

How?

Allow me to explain.

Time.

So, the website is extremely useful to whom? Kidney stone formers. It's kidneystonediet.com.

We've been building it now for a handful of years, and the what is we give all the resources and all the tools to prevent kidney stones. People suffer with kidney stones. It is a horrible pain from what I understand, and no People don't want to do it again.

So, we have tools, education, and resources on the site. These are the things that drive people to the website. Again, 300 views on YouTube.

It's not The platform is not famous, but it's very useful because also the YouTube videos, you don't need to watch them, you don't need to watch every single video. The goal is that's our organic content marketing to pull leads in. Then leads go to the website.

They realize, "Oh, there's all this that can help me. I'm going to use this tool, the oxalate list." If you just Google "oxalate list," it comes up not by accident, very deliberately because that is a tool. That is something that people actively search for, and we have satisfied that need.

I just keep thinking douche when he says tool and then the band, and then I'm like these are very different. Carry on.

But, so we have tools, we have education, how do you reduce your how do you reduce your risk, but prevent future kidney stones? And then we also have resources. When you go to the doctor, how do you have a better doctor's visit?

You can download this PDF that will tell you exactly what you need to know, how you can present it, and how you can get the most out of your appointments. We have a 24-hour urine collection, which is part of Anyone who has a kidney stone knows about this, but there's an analysis that gives you the results you need. These are all resources that people who have or have had kidney stones need these.

So, we've created an extremely useful platform, and then to get some of the free resources and tools, we ask for the email address. So, we get 2,000 emails a month. That means our email list is growing rapidly, but then that's our funnel.

Our funnel is give something, give many hugely valuable things, ask for an email address. Then from there you continue on your sales funnel. So, like we're just talking about bringing people in.

We're not talking about the details of nurturing, but most real estate Most realtors don't seem to even have a funnel in place, period.

No, there's very little give, and there's only ask. And it's ask, ask, ask, ask for attention, ask for you to hire me, ask for you to give me your email. It's never, "Oh, let me give you all of these resources.

Let me give you all of these things," which is why we do our videos that way with MAVEN is like, let me show you around the neighborhood that you just moved to or that maybe you've lived in your entire life and you don't know about these certain things. Or let me just give you the gift of knowledge. Like that alone is so underrated, and obviously I come from a very education-heavy background, but giving someone knowledge is like literally the best thing you could give someone, like genuinely hands down, and people are so much more curious and yeah, just curious than you think.

But anyway,

Well yeah, it's all just about being useful. So, the top of your funnel is be as useful as you possibly can. Give, give, give, give, give, give, ask.

So, also your email newsletter needs to give. It can't just be market updates. It can't It needs to be a reason for them to be there.

If you're giving them a tool for say figuring out the home they can afford, it's lame, it's not fun, whatever, but say you're giving them that. Now, you want to continue them taking them down this journey that tool has led them to. So, that's that's the art.

Art over science.

And that is already a warm lead because they're curious, "How can I afford a home?" So, then you need to further capture that by giving them even more resources. So, like, "Okay, here's a home buyer's guide," or some or I guess something a little bit more creative than that, but just, "Here are three things that you absolutely need to do before you buy a home: Are you pre-approved?" Like all those I'm not going to get in the weeds, but all those different things that you can give people.

And then, even if they already have a realtor, we've had people who's their client left their old realtor to then work with them because they're like, "Oh, you know way more than this idiot that I was working with who I'm related to." Which I find very funny. But, anyway, I digress. So, keep giving.

But, yeah. That's the whole thing. So, really talking about funnels and stuff is something that we need a much longer episode for.

Yes.

But if this sounds a little crazy to you, it's like I don't even know where to begin, this is one more thing that we're spinning up. We're spinning up the next step. So, we already do organic content marketing with MAVEN, whatismaven.com.

If you're interested in lead capture and what you do to nurture a lead after they raise their hand and say, "I want more," go to owntownlove.com. That's o-w-n-t-o-w-n-l-o-v-e.com, and we'll be launching that soon to help you then convert your leads into sales because that's really at the end of the day what everyone needs and what everyone wants, and we have the organic reach like dialed.

But if you don't know how to convert your leads into sales, there's a problem. And again, email newsletters, we have one, too. If you go to usefulnotfamous.com, every Monday, you will get one actionable tip on how to improve your business, and we've I think we've said it maybe every episode, but I feel like we should have, but like mindset is what people talk about when they have no actionable advice.

We only want to give actionable advice. We don't care about your mindset because your mindset will follow your action.

Exactly. If you're constantly worried about mindset, then you're never going to take action. You're only going to be in your own thoughts, and that's the worst thing you could be doing.

That's what you're trying to get out of by thinking about mindset is, "How do I shift my mindset to be more not useful, be to do more, to make more money?" At the end of the day, that's why people want to do more, for the most part, is to make more money. There are very, very few of us who are just like, "I'm just very competitive." But you need to actually do things, so get out there, do stuff, slide into people's DMs, make a newsletter, provides provide so much value that you feel like you're getting taken advantage of.

I know that might sound really crazy, but just give away every single thing you know and more. Learn

Because, you know why that works, is people look and they'll say, "If this is free, what are they doing when they actually get money from me?" Exactly. The What you're teaching them is that you don't phone it in. You're not like everyone else.

Like, what you said, like we're relentless. Like we're here, we're not going anywhere, we've done this forever. This is like who we are, and we want this podcast, the email,

The shirt!

Yeah, the pod the podcast, the email, everything we do, we want to just bash everyone over the head with value so they see that like we're in it for everyone else because when you win, we win.

And genuinely to help, not trying to be like, "Buy my event tickets."

Oh, yeah, but like when you win, we win. Like, truly, like if you're not succeeding, we're not succeeding. So, like it has to work.

Exactly. So, with that, shall we wrap it?

What, what? I'm not going to rap. Anyway.

See you next time.

Fuck fame. Make money.

Boom.